Species Study - Crataegus aestivalis

Frozentreehugger

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I get the rapid growth for recovery and the budget . That’s why I said what I I said . DE is fairly cheap compared to other substrates mentioned it for water retention in your climate . What I was getting at was with there rapid root growth . Free draining more expensive substrate that lasts a long time may not be economical and or the best for development . You are a long way from needing to worry about ramification need branches and chop recovery . So cheaper organic rich soil that breakes down and supplies nutrition may be very beneficial for growth . Good root growth means repot before drainage becomes a problem . They have shown they can take harsh root pruning cheaper bonsai soil especially rich in organic with drainage material can easily be made that will last up to 3 years before breakdown effects drainage .Also 90
Percent of all oil absorbents are DE or fullers earth the fillers earth will break down faster but is often cheaper and more common look for a sale if your budget concerned . Most bags will inform what it is some say natural product or natural clay product. . You can learn to go buy weight Fullers is heavier than DE Forget cheap soil how about FREE organic material Yard raked leaves make leaf mold when composted don’t have a yard . Here people put them in bags at end of lameway to be collected . Road and government workers often cut back the forest or clean up storm trees leaving piles of small prances they ran thru a chipper behind all you need is bags and a shovel and a composter I use a lot of crushed granite for bonsai soil why . It’s available and cheap purchased by the landscape trailer . It’s does not break down . Sure I’m aware volcanic substrates are better ( in some situations) but here hard to get and 20 to 20 times the price Use what you can get cheap . Some misunderstand cheap . It’s about budget whatever your budget is spent it wisely
 

Frozentreehugger

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Another place to save $. Copper wire . Home Depot or electrical supply house . Home electrical ground wire is pure copper twisted 7 strands of wire comes 2 sizes. 10 foot lengths easy to manage un twist the wire roll in small coils you now have 70 feet of wire needs to be annealed ( to make it soft ) copper is opposite of most metals when softened bends easy as you work it it becomes harder . Annealing is easy BBQ or coals of a wood fire heat it till it glows orange then cool it ( i dunk it in water ) but you can just let it cool
In the air . Any single strand household wire can have the plastic. Stripped off and be anealed used scrap yard whatever
 

Cajunrider

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Another place to save $. Copper wire . Home Depot or electrical supply house . Home electrical ground wire is pure copper twisted 7 strands of wire comes 2 sizes. 10 foot lengths easy to manage un twist the wire roll in small coils you now have 70 feet of wire needs to be annealed ( to make it soft ) copper is opposite of most metals when softened bends easy as you work it it becomes harder . Annealing is easy BBQ or coals of a wood fire heat it till it glows orange then cool it ( i dunk it in water ) but you can just let it cool
In the air . Any single strand household wire can have the plastic. Stripped off and be anealed used scrap yard whatever
I have a ton of salvaged house wire.
 
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I’ve been experimenting with Douglas (black) hawthorn in the mountain west.
Similar sites, usually 20 -50 feet from a stream. I’ve e been hard pruning the roots as well and potting in straight pumice. I’ve found that some I’ve dug are suckers. Some groves totally root connected. Have you seen this?
Here is one after cutting large downward roots.
 

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HorseloverFat

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I’ve been experimenting with Douglas (black) hawthorn in the mountain west.
Similar sites, usually 20 -50 feet from a stream. I’ve e been hard pruning the roots as well and potting in straight pumice. I’ve found that some I’ve dug are suckers. Some groves totally root connected. Have you seen this?
Here is one after cutting large downward roots.
YES!! that's what they do under the sand dunes here!!!

(Cratageus)
 

Cajunrider

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I’ve been experimenting with Douglas (black) hawthorn in the mountain west.
Similar sites, usually 20 -50 feet from a stream. I’ve e been hard pruning the roots as well and potting in straight pumice. I’ve found that some I’ve dug are suckers. Some groves totally root connected. Have you seen this?
Here is one after cutting large downward roots.
Yes they are root connected. As I mentioned before Mayhaw spreads by roots as well. Some that I dug up have a big connecting root and a tap root. It appears that when a root gets big enough a sprout forms and then the sprout develops a big downward root of its own.
 

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My research shows that Mayhaw can be readily reproduced by softwood cuttings. My friend at LSU Ag told me they do that to hundreds of cuttings at a time. Since I have an abundance of Mayhaw, I will not try that. However, I am doing a couple big hardwood cuttings. I doubt they will take but we'll see whether they can root as hard as Tamarindus indica.
 

Cajunrider

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Since they spread by roots, the next time I dig up a big tree, I will do some root cuttings. Let’s see if they are as hardy as Chinese elm.
 
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Here is one with large cuts on both sides.
The tree has done really well despite having hardly any other roots. I did the black bag technique this season… worked like a charm.
Good luck exploring your native Hawthornes!
 

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Cajunrider

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Here is one with large cuts on both sides.
The tree has done really well despite having hardly any other roots. I did the black bag technique this season… worked like a charm.
Good luck exploring your native Hawthornes!
In Louisiana, I cannot do the black bag technique without cooking my trees. I can do clear bags on my patio, totally shaded from then sun. That works for me.
 

Cajunrider

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I am thinking about doing some shohin Mayhaw. What would be the ideal trunk size for a shohin? I don't want to create shohin with a massive base that looks like a pile of turd with some leaves but I don't want a tree that looks like one that just comes of of a nursery and will take years to look like anything.
 

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Collected another 3 Mayhaw trees today. At this time, by sheer number of trees, I am the bonsai volume voice on the species :) . Unfortunately the trunks on these guys are all 2" or greater. Using a 6:1 ratio for trunk, they all have to be at least Kifu bonsai. Shohin will be a bit contrived. Still that may not stop me.
 

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Collected a clump of about 10 little trees .5 to 1.25" caliper yesterday. https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/cjr-crataegus-aestivalis-clump.55933/
I was looking for small ones to do some shohin and wound up with just one clump instead. Mayhaw loves to clump is you let it. I think a clump/forest is a natural format for this tree. It won't take long to develop one even from a single tree.
 

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One out of 3 hard wood cuttings is budding but that doesn’t guarantee anything. We will see in 6 weeks if it will have roots.
07873CA5-FEF1-495D-A3F1-357391B80963.jpeg
 
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Cajunrider

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One hard wood cutting is taking off!!!
Another cutting in raft position is not doing anything yet.
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Cajunrider

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So far I have about 30+ trees in singles, a clump, and forests. They are all in cheap potting soil and grow well. However, it looks like the growth will get out of hand quick. I may have to repot into some sort of bonsai mix soon, most particularly with the smaller ones. The big trees I will give them till next spring but the little ones need to be repotted fairly soon. Later this week I might collect a few more trees and pot them in bonsai mix right from the beginning. Then I can compare to see which way is better. There is no doubt that it will grow in potting mix fast, but is it good that way. So far the roots seem to grow long very fast. If the growth is nearly the same up top, I might like to see shorter finer roots instead.
 
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