Spruce and fir. Plans for coming spring. Please advise

[Hartinez]

I posted pics of these when collected them this spring. I potted up in pumice and bark. Fertilized heavy and let grow. They’ve responded wonderfully. I’ve been reading heavy on here as to how to proceed next spring. I’m also wondering if any steps should be taken now in regards to next spring. Information on hear tells me late summer to early fall is best time to trim hardened off growth. I wouldn’t think though, that this would be advisable on trees collected this year but that’s why I’m starting this thread. Also, repotting time for spruce on here tells me late summer. Is it one or the other in regards to repot and trimming spruce? Can I repot in spring AND trim growth next late summer while maintaining vigor? My confidence in juniper has grown extensively, but my spruce understanding needs work. One of these trees is a fir BTW. My understanding is that the treatment is similar. @PiñonJ @Walter Pall @0soyoung ive seen you guys post extensively on spruce. Advice would be great! Thanks!

 

[Hartinez]

Here is the fir.

 

[Hartinez]

This spruce in particular is exciting. It’s below soil level but there is a great big root running laterally across the base. Reminded of the base of this juniper that I think was rewarded well at the artisans cup.

 

[Adair M]

I would leave them alone, do nothing other than water and fertilizer for another year.

 

[Hartinez]

I would leave them alone, do nothing other than water and fertilizer for another year.

. Prob the best advice.
How bout a repot? I was able to extract a pretty good size root ball in all cases. My thought at the very least would be to remove about half of the original soil. But that’s what I’ve always done with our native juniper.

 

[0soyoung]

Yes, treatment of fir is similar to that of spruce (and Douglas fir, which is of neither species) - cut back to a bud circa August. Spring pinching is a shoot length control technique one might use only to maintain refinement. Otherwise, I suggest not pinching.

Repotting can be done spring or summer (circa August). I prefer August/Sep. Don't cut back foliage the same time as a major repot (bare rooting), but otherwise, both can be done. Don't repot if budding is weak. Intuitively obvious stuff once one accepts that foliage powers root growth. In my climate humidity rarely drops below 50%, so I put the trees in full sun directly after repotting. In your climate you may need to provide afternoon shade and maybe even misting - you would know this better than I.

If you have good vigor next spring (i.e., lots of new growth), I think you can proceed with repotting next Aug. Else wait another year. I think you can guage all conifers this way - lot so new growth in spring --> good to go for Aug repot (or following spring).

 

[Hartinez]

Yes, treatment of fir is similar to that of spruce (and Douglas fir, which is of neither species) - cut back to a bud circa August. Spring pinching is a shoot length control technique one might use only to maintain refinement. Otherwise, I suggest not pinching.

Repotting can be done spring or summer (circa August). I prefer August/Sep. Don't cut back foliage the same time as a major repot (bare rooting), but otherwise, both can be done. Don't repot if budding is weak. Intuitively obvious stuff once one accepts that foliage powers root growth. In my climate humidity rarely drops below 50%, so I put the trees in full sun directly after repotting. In your climate you may need to provide afternoon shade and maybe even misting - you would know this better than I.

If you have good vigor next spring (i.e., lots of new growth), I think you can proceed with repotting next Aug. Else wait another year. I think you can guage all conifers this way - lot so new growth in spring --> good to go for Aug repot (or following spring).

With 3 of the 4 I plan on repotting next summer/fall. The first spruce pictured was wedged between a few rocks at collection and the rootball was much smaller than i would have liked. It has exhibited strong growth however, and if that persists, rather than repot, I may clear up some of the weaker foliage within and cut back some of the overly long, hardened off growth on the tips next summer/fall, too balance out the foliage energy and leave the root system be to grow out as many feeder roots as possible.

If the other 3 have exhibited strong growth through out the season, is a bare root something an engleman spruce or fir can take with out issue? My experience with our native juniper is to never barefoot and to slowly remove the original soil over several seasons. I think I read somewhere that Walter Pall likes to get collected trees into pots with just enough space for the roots and a bit of substrate.

Regardless, humidity is never much of a thing here. Our dry summer heat can be brutal on most shade loving and even some sun loving trees. Ive been growing these on the north side of my house where they recieve morning sun and filtered afternoon sun. They were collected at almost 11000 feet in full sun, but the difference in heat is drastic 10-15 plus degrees on hot days.

Thanks for the reply @0soyoung I look forward to working these more and hope you'll follow along in the process.

DH

 

[0soyoung]

is a bare root something an engleman spruce or fir can take with out issue?

When in doubt, do only half bare root. I really don't think it necessary to factor it any finer than that.
Once you have a vigorously growing tree one can HBR in early Aug and finish the job the following spring. With the first HBR in Aug., one loosens the roots all around and bares all the roots on one side of the trunk and pots the works in your favorite substrate (no foliage reduction). Then completes the bare rooting the following spring. The option to postpone the completion always exists if there is a hard winter, say. The will be another new crop of highly productive foliage by the passage of the summer solstice.

 

[M. Frary]

I would wait 2 years after collecting a tree before considering doing root work.
I let all collected trees sit for at least 2 years before touching them. Sometimes 3.

 

[PiñonJ]

If you've had strong growth this year, I would see how it goes next year and, if they're still growing strong, you could do branch selection/structural setting next fall. But the surer thing is to wait two years to do that (i.e. spring of 2020) then repot the following spring. The advantage of doing the first styling (structural setting) prior to repotting is that you then know your potting angle prior to first placing it in a bonsai pot.

 

[Hartinez]

If you've had strong growth this year, I would see how it goes next year and, if they're still growing strong, you could do branch selection/structural setting next fall. But the surer thing is to wait two years to do that (i.e. spring of 2020) then repot the following spring. The advantage of doing the first styling (structural setting) prior to repotting is that you then know your potting angle prior to first placing it in a bonsai pot.

Makes sense to me. Thanks dude. ??

 

[Potawatomi13]

This spruce in particular is exciting. It’s below soil level but there is a great big root running laterally across the base. Reminded of the base of this juniper that I think was rewarded well at the artisans cup.

Embrace unusual feature if you consider interesting and attractive. Also "Fir" is Douglas fir/not true fir but different species.

 

[Hartinez]

Embrace unusual feature if you consider interesting and attractive. Also "Fir" is Douglas fir/not true fir but different species.

I LOVE the big lateral root, and is definitely one of the main reasons for collection. And often times I'm responding from my phone, so I'm too lazy and don't like to type out the word Douglas first.