Squamata Flat Ramified Pads

[just.wing.it]

Can Squamatas be pruned like this:

View attachment 275083

As described here:

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The differenice is that that branch has seven lignified branches coming off it.
Your branch needs to grow.

 

[bwaynef]

I don't work with J. squamata, but if you're having problems with dieback, maybe the branches aren't strong enough to be reduced. I'd let them grow out and have "runners" everywhere. That would produce the backbuds you're wanting and they'd be stronger as well. Also, be careful flattening pads out. You can almost universally remove bottom growth, but you should keep some top growth to fill out the pads.

 

[Orion_metalhead]

Top growth which appears back on a branch can be retained and wired out and down to replace older growth to create taper in a branch. You need to think about junipers differently because they dont reliably bud back off older wood. If you have a longer branch which you want to get closer back to the trunk, a strong top shoot is ideal because it will generally have enough vigor to be cut back to in a healthy tree.

 

[Orion_metalhead]

I would comfortably cut back this branch to the red. If the branches in the yellow show strength after next growth season, I would cut back to them and wire them to now have two branches instead of one. So on and so forth, keeping some strong branches and developing the next shoot on the branch.

 

[leatherback]

Sorry I don't get what you mean by this.

Loads of responses already.
What I meant was.. When you trim squamata, trim the ends of the branches much stronger than the inner foliage. I take out whol whorls of branches on points where too many new branches occurred and bring every intersection back to 2 buds. As the branch gets weaker on the inside, I leave more of the inner foliage, untill it gets stronger.

Note: I prune every branch individually. I know it may be tempting to just cut to profile but I find that a sure way to kill off the inner growth.

- Thin out the pad so light can pass through
- Trim back long growth on the outside
- Allow inner stuff to stay longer
- Cut to side-branches when the pad gets too long

In the branchs you have shown, you see the end of the branch is MUCH stronger than the inside. Yet you trimmed all the way to the back. I would nog have trimmed thos small side branches in the back.

So.. For maintenance, this is what I would do:


Or, if you want to really push the tree and develop a new pad, you could go extreme:


This is based on a few years of playing with a squamata. Not an expert !

 

[leatherback]

Can Squamatas be pruned like this:

Backbudding is for me much less reliable than on e.g. ittoigawa. I have done this on mine for initial laying out based on exactly the article you link to. I was not overly happy with the results. I would recomment to ensure you do not remove too much of the inner branchlets. I think I would not do it again unless I have foliage very close to the trunk and ample space to grow out.

 

[one_bonsai]

When you trim squamata, trim the ends of the branches much stronger than the inner foliage.

The problem I find when leaving longer secondary branches is that the ramification on those secondary branches begins too far away from the primary branch. Hence the reason why I prune them short.

 

[Shibui]

If you leave strong active buds at the ends of branches and just prune the weaker secondary branches the tree will continue to put resources into the healthy tips and not into the weaker ones you have pruned. Most junipers seem to need foliage to stay alive. They don't backbud after pruning like many deciduous do. Where you have over long secondary branching leave them but prune the strong ends back a bit - as in either orion_metalhead's virt or Leatherback's first image. Usually the tree will make new shoots at the base of branches that are left and maybe the tips of those will also grow. Allow those new basal shoots to grow and gain strength (a few months-year) then finally remove any leggy secondary branches.
If you are working with a lower branch you may need to reduce other stronger branches to force the tree to send resources to the pruned branch.

 

[leatherback]

And you have seen the result of that, correct?

 

[one_bonsai]

I see. Thanks everyone for your help. I now have a much better idea on how to develop the pads.

 

[sorce]

Hence the reason why I prune them short.

I don't count on a budless/forkless branch backbudding. If them one are too long, they always will be.
Those "crotch" branches that come out later usually have closer nodes.

I feel like it's because of the natural space in which they are allowed to grow.

More even...the time at which that space is filled.

It seems they throw branches like these always right? Stong tips, weak inners.

Red being strong, yeller's being existing weak.

It seems this is almost on purpose, those weak branches just used as a sacrifice mechanism to broaden the outer edge of the canopy. To fuel the extension. But the tree knows it will abandon them the next year, in favor of the small crotch branches that form, those with smaller internodes to fit right foliage in these little gaps. (Greens)

That may be why that interior foliage is naturally weak.

We are supposed to wait for them crotch branches to use for fill.

Or, like I was saying before, intervene way before those branches get abandoned. But I'm afraid this leads to more confusion/less health since it is unnatural, where of we wait for crotch branches, we retain more health, and get a better look.

Resorce.

Sorce

 

[Forsoothe!]

I'm finding all of this hard to follow. The process of ramification is simple enough: wire the foliage into flat planes and pinch the tips to force secondary buds to grow, from which will arise new growth that will always grow approximately straight up or cut it off it grows in the wrong direction. Pinch them, the sooner, the better.


Then after a year it should have some growth that can be pinched, or if there is enough you can hedge trim it like this: (15 years in the making)

I do it with a 12" scissors because I run out of fingertips after a couple hours. It looks wrong with all the brown tips, but I do it in the spring for fall showing, or in the fall for spring showing. There will be some finger tipping just before the show, like one or two days before the show because they will turn brown in a week. I've been told that you have to reach in there and trim at the center of the stem so as to not show brown tips, but I don't know a soul who could take the time on this one tree about a foot tall from the bench, let alone my other 5 or 6 trees.

See how all the growth is up and out? after a while just pinch-able numbers of shoots will grow downward.






A man's only got just so many fingertips...

 

[leatherback]

'm finding all of this hard to follow.

which of those is squamata?

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

My suggestion would be
Use the search function for threads in BNut.

Also check the BNut resources section - a couple links:

Tutorial - How to trim and establish pads, Junipers pt1

This tutorial will deal with establishing pads in junipers. This method demonstrated here will show what the bonsai community as a whole, now considers the most widely excepted and best approach to dealing with junipers and their foliage. For a...

www.bonsainut.com

Tutorial - How to trim and establish pads, Junipers pt2

This tutorial picks up where the first one ended. So, to pick up where we left off... One was shown where to cut juniper foliage to start reducing and shaping the pad. With the cuts made from the last tutorial, we would now find ourselves with a...

www.bonsainut.com

Tutorial - How to trim and establish pads, Junipers pt3

This tutorial picks up where the second one leaves off. In the last tutorial we were doing final touches on a pad, and were discussing some problem areas one might encounter when trimming. The following diagram is where we left off. Now we...

www.bonsainut.com

Juniper Species, Varieties, and Cultivars

Lazylightningny submitted a new resource: Juniper Species, Varieties, and Cultivars - A guide to juniper species, and a lesson on correct taxonomic nomenclature JUNIPER SPECIES, VARIETIES, and CULTIVARS and Correct Taxonomic Nomenclature Note: Information researched from various internet...

www.bonsainut.com

Read the posts on Junipers in the Juniper sub-forum especially by users like Smoke, Brian Van Fleet, RockM, MarkyScott, Adair M, and a number of the old timers. It is the holiday season, so I believe you haven't gotten responses from the true juniper experts because they are currently busy with family and vacations etc.

Note: when reading threads by Smoke, understand that if it gets political or personal, the post often goes "off topic" or "off the rails" or into an all out "Flame War". But the Bonsai Techniques, that Smoke writes about are dead on accurate, and very often the best way to go. Just ignore the sometimes lengthy side track flame wars these threads often contain. When it comes to bonsai, Smoke (Al Kepler) is well informed and a pretty good teacher. The rest, well, Al is an acquired taste. I really respect his bonsai chops.

The one think I will add from my experience. Don't prune or pinch the branches too often. I'm in northern Midwestern USA, near Chicago. My growing season is only 100 to 120 days long. If I prune or pinch my junipers more than 2 times per year they become weak. The OP for this post is in Australia, and has a growing season that may be over 200 days long. This would mean a much longer growing season. Might be able to prune or pinch or shape their trees 3 or more times a year. Regardless, pruning or pinching too often will weaken the tree.

Allow branches to extend, at least 4 to 8 inches or 10 cm to 20 cm before doing a round of pruning back. You need episodes of rapid growth to keep a juniper happy. Let it grow out, unmolested, then prune back to shape, repeat. Constant pruning will result in steadily weakening the tree.