Stopping a bougie's flowering-phase, so you can get more vegetative growth?

SU2

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I've got several large bougies that were growing like weeds and, in the past week, slowed significantly...I didn't realize why (though I suspected as much) until today, when I found one of them sporting 4 shoots that were setting flower bracts... Bougies go from flowering to vegetative phase, back&forth, and they spend a lot of time in their flowering-phase so, since I'm just looking for growth/girth, I'm not happy with them going into flowering.

I know that I can stop a flowering-phase by doing a heavy pruning (they're not quite ready for it, but I'm guessing that doing that, despite being a time-loser, would be made-up by the time spent not flowering), however I've started thinking that, maybe, I can just remove the flower/bract buds as they appear! If that were to work w/o issue it'd be ideal, I could keep my longish branches growing and hardly skip a beat, but am afraid the plant will just keep trying to push flower buds (if it's genetically expecting a flower-phase for ~4+ weeks, and I start pinching them, something tells me there's a good chance I'll spend 4+wks pinching flower buds & not getting any vegetative growth)

Thanks for any thoughts on this! I should note that most of the bougies in question were collected a little under 5mo ago, but they're bougies ie they root&shoot very fast&hardy, they're not old but they seem quite well-established based on root density and growth habits in the canopy :)
 

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I don't know how to STOP a bougie from flowering, but I know how to start it...

All you do is water shock it. Move it into a sunny area, let the soil completely dry out (bone dry) and wait until the foliage starts to wilt and turns a grey/green color.

Then water like mad and watch as your bougie bursts forth in color - everywhere.

Pic of a bougie in my front yard:

bougie.jpg
 

Carol 83

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I don't know how to STOP a bougie from flowering, but I know how to start it...

All you do is water shock it. Move it into a sunny area, let the soil completely dry out (bone dry) and wait until the foliage starts to wilt and turns a grey/green color.

Then water like mad and watch as your bougie bursts forth in color - everywhere.

Pic of a bougie in my front yard:

View attachment 158593
That is stunning!
 

SU2

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I don't know how to STOP a bougie from flowering, but I know how to start it...

All you do is water shock it. Move it into a sunny area, let the soil completely dry out (bone dry) and wait until the foliage starts to wilt and turns a grey/green color.

Then water like mad and watch as your bougie bursts forth in color - everywhere.

Pic of a bougie in my front yard:

View attachment 158593

That is an impressively-full flowering!! Those bracts are just so vivid!!

What do you think of the "defoliate 2mo before you want flowers" approach? I know I've read about dryness being a huge trigger for them, if you're letting them get bone-dry as a cue to start their flowering-phase, you say you water heavily- when? Do you wait until flower buds set or just let the soil get *very* dry first and then flood it?

(just curious re defoliation, am growing-out most of my stuff so not looking to lose foliage unnecessarily!!
 

c54fun

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I have 4 boogies and they all act the same. The more sun and heat they get the more flowers they produce. Less sun, more green. If you want lots of green, water it often, feed it often and keep it out of direct sun. Not sure why you would want to defoliate. I've never done that and mine grow like crazy. Also if you grow it in mostly shade the leaves will be big. Like twice as big. Morning sun afternoon shade grows foliage best for me. Full sun to flower. They love heat also. The hotter it is here the faster it grows. From time to time I also give mine miracid. Try to use as much rain water on mine as I can. More acidic compared to my tap.
 

SU2

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I have 4 boogies and they all act the same. The more sun and heat they get the more flowers they produce. Less sun, more green. If you want lots of green, water it often, feed it often and keep it out of direct sun. Not sure why you would want to defoliate. I've never done that and mine grow like crazy. Also if you grow it in mostly shade the leaves will be big. Like twice as big. Morning sun afternoon shade grows foliage best for me. Full sun to flower. They love heat also. The hotter it is here the faster it grows. From time to time I also give mine miracid. Try to use as much rain water on mine as I can. More acidic compared to my tap.

Good stuff, thanks!!

Re defoliation, I just meant that it's a technique to induce flowering, like if you were going to show a bonsai and needed it to flower on a specific date, you'd defoliate ~2mo beforehand (re Erik Wigert's approach at least)

I'm really curious about your miracid, now called 'azalea/camellia/rhododendron food' https://www.miraclegro.com/en-us/pr...luble-azalea-camellia-rhododendron-plant-food
https://www.miraclegro.com/en-us/pr...luble-azalea-camellia-rhododendron-plant-food
What's your primary reason(s) for using it? The things I see sticking-out as unusual are that it's just so high in nitrogen (30-10-10), it has higher iron levels and it's 'for acid loving plants' (unsure how it actually achieves that though, any elaboration on what the ingredient(s) are that make it for 'acid lovers' would be greatly appreciated!)

That's interesting re rainwater compared to tap, do you happen to recall your tap's values? How did you test? I need to do this asap as I've got mostly bougainvilleas which want acidic and I've zero idea whether they're in an alkaline-leaning soil / watering-routine right now or not...damnit! If they're more towards alkaline then I've wasted a lot of time holding them back!!
 

Bonsai Nut

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That is an impressively-full flowering!! Those bracts are just so vivid!!

What do you think of the "defoliate 2mo before you want flowers" approach? I know I've read about dryness being a huge trigger for them, if you're letting them get bone-dry as a cue to start their flowering-phase, you say you water heavily- when? Do you wait until flower buds set or just let the soil get *very* dry first and then flood it?

(just curious re defoliation, am growing-out most of my stuff so not looking to lose foliage unnecessarily!!

The bush that is in that photo gets no supplemental watering. It goes from March to November without a drop of water from any source. Then the California rains come in December, and that is what it looks like in February.

You have to prune it to shape, and let it go dry, which causes it to go into a summer dormancy phase. All growth will stop and the bougie will just sit there. I am talking about larger bougies, by the way, not something tiny like a shohin which I'm not sure would be able to take the stress. Also, make sure this is with a tree that has established roots - not something you have recently transplanted. Bougies do NOT like their roots to be messed with very much - which is starting to be a common theme with desert plants or trees that can handle the desert heat and dry. And of course you want it in 100% sun - not a drop of shade.

I have no idea about defoliating bougies, since I have never tried it.
 
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c54fun

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Good stuff, thanks!!

Re defoliation, I just meant that it's a technique to induce flowering, like if you were going to show a bonsai and needed it to flower on a specific date, you'd defoliate ~2mo beforehand (re Erik Wigert's approach at least)

I'm really curious about your miracid, now called 'azalea/camellia/rhododendron food' https://www.miraclegro.com/en-us/pr...luble-azalea-camellia-rhododendron-plant-food
What's your primary reason(s) for using it? The things I see sticking-out as unusual are that it's just so high in nitrogen (30-10-10), it has higher iron levels and it's 'for acid loving plants' (unsure how it actually achieves that though, any elaboration on what the ingredient(s) are that make it for 'acid lovers' would be greatly appreciated!)

That's interesting re rainwater compared to tap, do you happen to recall your tap's values? How did you test? I need to do this asap as I've got mostly bougainvilleas which want acidic and I've zero idea whether they're in an alkaline-leaning soil / watering-routine right now or not...damnit! If they're more towards alkaline then I've wasted a lot of time holding them back!!

I measured my tap and rain water with one of those cheap tester kits you can buy online. My flowering and fruiting plants like a dose of muracid from time to time. I use to measure and look at nitrogen numbers and stuff but I don't anymore. I use a little of everything now. Probably 90% Biogold and from time to time fish and kelp stuff. Also some muracid for the flowering and fruiting trees. I also add iron and black humic. The day I stopped measuring and being concerned about how much to give and when to give fertilizers compared to looking at the trees and adjusting as to there needs my trees started to look very healthy. I do have a white pine and there is a different protical for avoiding fertilizer at specific times but other than that I just go by what the trees look like.

I also use jack's professional 20-20-20. Sometimes after the biogold has been on a while I will mix up a batch of Jack's.

I wouldn't advise my methods. It works for me but if your in doubt follow the directions on the labels.

I add extra pin fines and some Kanuma to my standard bonsai mix for the flowering and fruiting trees. You can even take the top layer of soil off and maybe some around the sides and then add pine fines and Kanuma. Then your next re pot mix in pine fines and Kanuma with whatever your using now.

Not the most accurate but the rain water is more acidic then my tap but my tap is not bad.
20170630_124833.jpg
 

SU2

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I have no idea about defoliating bougies, since I have never tried it.

I was just re-reading a bougainvillea development article by Erik Wigert, I know I mentioned he defoliates ~2mo before a show to force a bloom at that time (probably/surely including water-starvation at bloom-time), but upon re-reading I noticed that he actually defoliates every time he wires as well! In the past I defoliated a single shoot on a bougie and every node gave me a new shoot instead of new leaf, though when I've tried larger defoliations the effect (1 node-->1 new shoot) didn't continue on larger scale (I defoliated an entire medium sized bougie at that 'experiment', it was at collection time so figured it was a means of balancing the seriously-decreased root-mass I'd taken when collecting it!)
 

SU2

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I measured my tap and rain water with one of those cheap tester kits you can buy online. My flowering and fruiting plants like a dose of muracid from time to time. I use to measure and look at nitrogen numbers and stuff but I don't anymore. I use a little of everything now. Probably 90% Biogold and from time to time fish and kelp stuff. Also some muracid for the flowering and fruiting trees. I also add iron and black humic. The day I stopped measuring and being concerned about how much to give and when to give fertilizers compared to looking at the trees and adjusting as to there needs my trees started to look very healthy. I do have a white pine and there is a different protical for avoiding fertilizer at specific times but other than that I just go by what the trees look like.

I also use jack's professional 20-20-20. Sometimes after the biogold has been on a while I will mix up a batch of Jack's.

I wouldn't advise my methods. It works for me but if your in doubt follow the directions on the labels.

I add extra pin fines and some Kanuma to my standard bonsai mix for the flowering and fruiting trees. You can even take the top layer of soil off and maybe some around the sides and then add pine fines and Kanuma. Then your next re pot mix in pine fines and Kanuma with whatever your using now.

Not the most accurate but the rain water is more acidic then my tap but my tap is not bad.
View attachment 158999
Yeah I don't ever see myself getting serious about measuring parameters like it's a saltwater tank I just want to get an idea what my water is (am starting to think I may be lucky enough to find that online somehow, instead of going and finding a pH kit! But otherwise they seem cheap and ubiquitous), it's just that I know bougies prefer acid and they comprise such a large % of my nursery right now that I'd gain a lot if I found my water was extremely/outlier alkaline or something!
 

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There are people who come to me asking why they have no flower. I ask them if they have great foliage. They tell me they've got great looking leaves and health, but no flowers. I ask what do you use for fertilizer, and everytime the answer is the same. They use Miracle Gro.
 

SU2

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There are people who come to me asking why they have no flower. I ask them if they have great foliage. They tell me they've got great looking leaves and health, but no flowers. I ask what do you use for fertilizer, and everytime the answer is the same. They use Miracle Gro.
What's the implication here? Miracle gro has a huge variety of macronutrient blends, is it the lack of minerals? The propensity to higher nitrogen levels relative to potassium/phosphorous?
 

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What's the implication here? Miracle gro has a huge variety of macronutrient blends, is it the lack of minerals? The propensity to higher nitrogen levels relative to potassium/phosphorous?
Probably. They fertilize once or biweekly.
 

SU2

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Some examples of my method.
**insert gorgeous pics here**

Damn!!! That's some incredibly impressive stuff, thanks a lot for posting I love seeing others' specimen & setups (just learned a new trick from your pics, the tying of the container to the bench, I've got some containers that're kind of prone to one of my outdoor cats jumping-up and causing problems, such restraints would completely alleviate those concerns!!)

Just beautiful specimen, thanks again for posting!! Is the purple a double-flower and/or mini variety? It looks different (beyond the purple flowers of course! Unsure what colors most of mine are, really hope I have a purple!!)

I imagine the (white)towel-wrapped container is for insulating from summer heat? How much do you employ that type of thing / what conditions? Or just as matter-of-course for certain specimen?

Those tables (black/charcoal wood beams run perpendicular to the length of the table), are they store-bought? They look DIY, am very intrigued (and envious)!!!

Last thing- that bougie bonsai in-ground, how much of a difference in growth-rate are you seeing between that and the containerized specimen? I'm able to compare my boxed bougies to in-ground specimen but they're all significantly larger, you've got bougie bonsai both in- and out-of-ground, am very keen to hear the differences you've encountered here :D
 

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Damn!!! That's some incredibly impressive stuff, thanks a lot for posting I love seeing others' specimen & setups (just learned a new trick from your pics, the tying of the container to the bench, I've got some containers that're kind of prone to one of my outdoor cats jumping-up and causing problems, such restraints would completely alleviate those concerns!!)

Just beautiful specimen, thanks again for posting!! Is the purple a double-flower and/or mini variety? It looks different (beyond the purple flowers of course! Unsure what colors most of mine are, really hope I have a purple!!)

I imagine the (white)towel-wrapped container is for insulating from summer heat? How much do you employ that type of thing / what conditions? Or just as matter-of-course for certain specimen?

Those tables (black/charcoal wood beams run perpendicular to the length of the table), are they store-bought? They look DIY, am very intrigued (and envious)!!!

Last thing- that bougie bonsai in-ground, how much of a difference in growth-rate are you seeing between that and the containerized specimen? I'm able to compare my boxed bougies to in-ground specimen but they're all significantly larger, you've got bougie bonsai both in- and out-of-ground, am very keen to hear the differences you've encountered here :D

Thanks @SU2 . The bungee cords work great keeping things in place. Purple one is just a regular purple bougainvillea. The one that looks like its in the ground is in a container in a hole in the ground. When winter comes I take it out of the hole and put it in a small heated greenhouse. It has monster leaves because it is mainly shaded. July and August I wrap the black pot to help keep it cooler. The table are DIY.
 
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SU2

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Thanks @SU2 . The bungee cords work great keeping things in place. Purple one is just a regular purple bougainvillea. The one that looks like its in the ground is in a container in a hole in the ground. When winter comes I take it out of the hole and put it in a small heated greenhouse. It has monster leaves because it is mainly shaded. July and August I wrap the black pot to help keep it cooler. The table are DIY.

Thanks again for the info, do you happen to have a website or instagram or anything? Would love to see more!!

The bungee-cord/tie-down idea is just great, thanks again for that - there's too-many cats around that I've gotta place everything with that in-mind, tie-downs like that are going to be so useful!!

The table is DIY - did you just happen to have a bunch of those sized slats of wood, or did you choose that type of design and buy for it? Looks good! I'm about to build a couple more benches, my first one is just topped with metal shelving so drainage is 100% but don't have enough shelving left to make >1 more table like my first one:
19700617_224058.jpg
 
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