Strange coloration in Amur leaves

[eeeealmo]

Hey everyone! My amur maple leafed out super early (mid-Jan), and has been growing like crazy already, but I've noticed some of the leaves have very unusual color/patterns on them. I feel like I remember seeing someone once say this issue was related to iron deficiency, but I'm not positive where or when I saw this (or if that is even correct).

Does anyone know what is going on here, and if it is a problem? Will the leaves eventually look normal, or are these leaves bunk? Thanks!

 

[0soyoung]

Chlorosis.
It is usually caused by an iron deficiency that arises because the soil pH is too high --> remedy is a bit of iron sulfate.

However, this sometimes happens because the roots are cool. I would wait a few weeks to see if it doesn't go away when things have warmed a bit. If it is still there, a pinch of iron sulfate should take care of it as it will also acidify the substrate. If you have hard water, this may reappear again after a while.

And then it could be because you have hard (aka akaline) water. If so, this will not go away when things warm up a bit and will become a chronic issue - if so, you should look into ways to some kind of time release acidifying fert (marked 'for azaleas'), acidifying your water, or finding a different water source (e.g., collecting rain water in a cistern).

 

[eeeealmo]

Chlorosis.
It is usually caused by an iron deficiency that arises because the soil pH is too high --> remedy is a bit of iron sulfate.

However, this sometimes happens because the roots are cool. I would wait a few weeks to see if it doesn't go away when things have warmed a bit. If it is still there, a pinch of iron sulfate should take care of it as it will also acidify the substrate. If you have hard water, this may reappear again after a while.

And then it could be because you have hard (aka akaline) water. If so, this will not go away when things warm up a bit and will become a chronic issue - if so, you should look into ways to some kind of time release acidifying fert (marked 'for azaleas'), acidifying your water, or finding a different water source (e.g., collecting rain water in a cistern).

Thanks for the quick and thurough answer! Unfortunately, at the moment it could definitely be either of those things. There were some nights in the upper 30's after it had pushed out leaves, but we have absolutely terrible hard water here too. Will wait and see! Thanks again.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Amur maple are very cold tolerant, your water is the most likely issue. Definitely get some Iron sulfate fertilizer. And switch to regularly using an acid fertilizer as for azaleas.

 

[rockm]

not the cold. Only freezing and frost will affect leaves on Amur and then the leaves turn black from cell death. Clorosis.

 

[eeeealmo]

Amur maple are very cold tolerant, your water is the most likely issue. Definitely get some Iron sulfate fertilizer. And switch to regularly using an acid fertilizer as for azaleas.

Something like this? https://www.amazon.com/Ferrous-Sulfate-Heptahydrate-Greenway-Biotech/dp/B00KJL5ZL4

 

[0soyoung]

Or like this, that you can likely find at your local hardware store and/or garden center. Your example, could be put in solution and applied as a foliar spray to see the response faster than through the roots. Root adsorption is best, but much slower.

I tmust say that cold hardiness has little to nothing to do with the capacity to adsorb minerals and/or synthesize photocenters at marginally cool temperatures. Cold hardiness is the ability to resist death by freezing; that is the capacity to sugar up cell tissues so that they don't freeze.

 

[ajm55555]

Chlorosis.
It is usually caused by an iron deficiency that arises because the soil pH is too high --> remedy is a bit of iron sulfate.

On a side note: is there any issue because of too much iron in the water? The water I use comes from rusty pipes and you can see it has a reddish tinge.

 

[0soyoung]

On a side note: is there any issue because of too much iron in the water? The water I use comes from rusty pipes and you can see it has a reddish tinge.

I am not aware of any.
Rust is not a form/compound of iron usable by plants. As iron sulfate or chelated, it is.

Check the Iron,Fe thread.

 

[GrampaMoses]

Chlorosis is a condition where leaves don't produce enough chlorophyll, which is why they look pale and yellow. There are several causes, but the one I'm most familiar with is a deficiency of iron, magnesium, or zinc. Even if there is iron present in the soil, a high ph of water can over time change the ph of the soil, making the iron chemically unavailable for the tree's roots to absorb.



Based on your picture and my previous experience having the exact same thing happen to my Amur maples, I'd say it's an iron deficiency due to a high ph.



Google "_____ county water quality" for wherever you live. My county has a yearly update for my district's exact ph. Mine is 9.0ph with 131mg/l water hardness. By comparison rain water is roughly 5.0ph.



The ph of the water changes the soil ph over time. Harry Harrington explains his method of using 1 teaspoon of vinegar with 7 liters of water *once a month* to water his bonsai. Preventing the acidic water from changing the ph of the soil too quickly. http://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATHard Water pH and Bonsai.html

I decided on a more permanent solution. Attached to my hose is a siphon that pulls a diluted acid from a 50 gallon drum. That way all of my water comes out of the hose at roughly 6ph every time I water my trees. I measure and refill the 50 gallon drum about 3 times a year. The drum is filled with a hydroponics product called "PH Down" that's a mixture of several different kinds of acids. About 2 cups of acid per 50 gallons, then mixed with the siphon, the water comes out at 6ph



Soil ph is difficult to properly test because of our inorganic, granular particles, so I found it much easier to test and monitor my water ph. In the 3 years since I added my drum of acid water, I haven't seen any chlorosis problems again. This solution is *instead* of adding iron fertilizers to the soil.

If you only have a few acid loving trees (amur maple, larch, azalea) you can simply water those with rain water and use your tap water for everything else.

 

[moke]

Chlorosis is a condition where leaves don't produce enough chlorophyll, which is why they look pale and yellow. There are several causes, but the one I'm most familiar with is a deficiency of iron, magnesium, or zinc. Even if there is iron present in the soil, a high ph of water can over time change the ph of the soil, making the iron chemically unavailable for the tree's roots to absorb.

View attachment 285805

Based on your picture and my previous experience having the exact same thing happen to my Amur maples, I'd say it's an iron deficiency due to a high ph.

View attachment 285806

Google "_____ county water quality" for wherever you live. My county has a yearly update for my district's exact ph. Mine is 9.0ph with 131mg/l water hardness. By comparison rain water is roughly 5.0ph.

View attachment 285807

The ph of the water changes the soil ph over time. Harry Harrington explains his method of using 1 teaspoon of vinegar with 7 liters of water *once a month* to water his bonsai. Preventing the acidic water from changing the ph of the soil too quickly. http://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATHard Water pH and Bonsai.html

I decided on a more permanent solution. Attached to my hose is a siphon that pulls a diluted acid from a 50 gallon drum. That way all of my water comes out of the hose at roughly 6ph every time I water my trees. I measure and refill the 50 gallon drum about 3 times a year. The drum is filled with a hydroponics product called "PH Down" that's a mixture of several different kinds of acids. About 2 cups of acid per 50 gallons, then mixed with the siphon, the water comes out at 6ph

View attachment 285804

Soil ph is difficult to properly test because of our inorganic, granular particles, so I found it much easier to test and monitor my water ph. In the 3 years since I added my drum of acid water, I haven't seen any chlorosis problems again. This solution is *instead* of adding iron fertilizers to the soil.

If you only have a few acid loving trees (amur maple, larch, azalea) you can simply water those with rain water and use your tap water for everything else.

I have a setup very similar to what you have and it works great once you have it dialed in. The pH of the water in our area is around 8.7 and I also shoot for a pH of 6.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

@GrampaMoses
Great charts! Thank you for sharing.
The soil and water pH discussion, was pretty accurate. But I would like to point out that pH is a "red herring", a rabbit hole that one can go down, get lost and miss the key issue.

pH is trivial. Total Alkalinity is the BIG ISSUE. In low Total Alkalinity water, one drop of vinegar, or even just breathing over the water can take the pH from 9 to 5. On the other hand, in high Total Alkalinity water you would need a 50 gallon drum of 100% acids to take the pH from 9 to 6.5, the issue is not the pH, it is the total alkalinity.

The original poster is in the San Jose, California area - and California is noted for often having absolutely horrible municipal water supplies, often from wells that are pumping water so hard it sounds like gravel moving through the pipes.

Probably the best move would be to try one of the sulfur contain acid plant foods, use this continuously at a low dose to help counteract your hard, alkaline water. If that doesn't work, consider possibly switching to collecting rain water (if it ever rains there) and supplementing rain water with RO or DI water. You don't have to use pure rain water, or RO or DI, you could probably blend 10 to 20% tap water with the RO or DI to stretch it a little. But you may just have to get away from using municipal water.

Or you do like most Californians on hard water wells. Quit trying to grow sensitive trees, and only grow trees that do well with high total alkalinity water. Some tolerant trees are Junipers, and more Junipers, and JBP, possibly trident maples, (Japanese maples and Amur are more sensitive than tridents). Elms tolerate hard water. Forget azalea.

Look around, what sells well at your local landscape nurseries. Those will be trees that tolerate your municipal water.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Trees listed as salt tolerant will tolerate hard, alkaline water. So when you are at a nursery, notice what they are selling for coastal landscape material. Those trees will tolerate bad water better.