Styling Advice On Newly Acquired Premna

[Omar]

Hello all,

I got this Premna a few weeks ago and chopped it to a height suitable for a small shohin. My question is how to avoid reverse taper when you're developing primary branches? I'm letting the branch on the lower right grow but as a result a small bulge is beginning to develop. What can be done about that?

 

[Victorim]

Unless im missing something, you wont get reverse taper from branches growing like that. if they were at the same height it could produce a bulge but not from like that..

Edit - see what your seeing now. its new growth, will even out trunk wise.

 

[Omar]

Unless im missing something, you wont get reverse taper from branches growing like that. if they were at the same height it could produce a bulge but not from like that..

Edit - see what your seeing now. its new growth, will even out trunk wise.

Maybe 'reverse taper' is the incorrect term, what I'm trying to describe is a large unsightly bulge at the site of growth. Does that make sense?

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Maybe 'reverse taper' is the incorrect term, what I'm trying to describe is a large unsightly bulge at the site of growth. Does that make sense?

Yes, your question makes sense, but I see nothing to worry about. Your "eye" is calibrated to be too sensitive to the issue. This tree will be growing, trunk needs to increase in diameter. These small bulges will be masked completely in time.

If it were mine, I'd be looking to double the diameter of the trunk, during that multi year process all manner of minor issues can be grown out.

Good eye in that you know what to look for, but being over sensitive could lead to trying to correct something that does not need to be fixed.

 

[Omar]

Yes, your question makes sense, but I see nothing to worry about. Your "eye" is calibrated to be too sensitive to the issue. This tree will be growing, trunk needs to increase in diameter. These small bulges will be masked completely in time.

If it were mine, I'd be looking to double the diameter of the trunk, during that multi year process all manner of minor issues can be grown out.

Good eye in that you know what to look for, but being over sensitive could lead to trying to correct something that does not need to be fixed.

Ahh good point. With this little guy I just want a small shohin so overall I'm shooting for a height somewhere between 3-6in, I think I can probably get away with that height/thickness? I don't have outdoor space save for a small balcony so I only grow small trees, thanks Leo.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Ahh good point. With this little guy I just want a small shohin so overall I'm shooting for a height somewhere between 3-6in, I think I can probably get away with that height/thickness? I don't have outdoor space save for a small balcony so I only grow small trees, thanks Leo.

One of the suggestions (not a rigid rule, just a suggestion) for creating a tree that looks like a tree is that the diameter of the trunk be somewhere around 20% to 40% the total height of the tree. This is not a rigid rule, and the image you are trying to create will influence this. For a 6 inch tall tree you want the diameter of the trunk to be at least 1.25 inches, and right up to 3 inches diameter would not be unusual. The smaller the size of the bonsai, the more exaggerated the diameter of the trunk relative to height; This is to create the illusion of an old tree rather than the image suggesting a bush or house plant.

A forest planting, the trunks can be smaller in diameter relative to height. Maybe 5% to 10% relative to total height. The older you want the tree to look, the more the thickness of the trunk needs to be emphasized. The extreme case is ''Sumo Style'', where the diameter of the trunk, just above the soil line is equal or greater than the height of the tree. But Sumo style is an exaggeration into the realm of the grotesque. Real trees seldom look like that, though I'm sure as quick as I typed it, someone will post a picture of a tree in the wild where this is true.

So even if you are planning on a shohin, less than 8 inches tall bonsai, you will still need to thicken the trunk over time.

 

[Omar]

One of the suggestions (not a rigid rule, just a suggestion) for creating a tree that looks like a tree is that the diameter of the trunk be somewhere around 20% to 40% the total height of the tree. This is not a rigid rule, and the image you are trying to create will influence this. For a 6 inch tall tree you want the diameter of the trunk to be at least 1.25 inches, and right up to 3 inches diameter would not be unusual. The smaller the size of the bonsai, the more exaggerated the diameter of the trunk relative to height; This is to create the illusion of an old tree rather than the image suggesting a bush or house plant.

A forest planting, the trunks can be smaller in diameter relative to height. Maybe 5% to 10% relative to total height. The older you want the tree to look, the more the thickness of the trunk needs to be emphasized. The extreme case is ''Sumo Style'', where the diameter of the trunk, just above the soil line is equal or greater than the height of the tree. But Sumo style is an exaggeration into the realm of the grotesque. Real trees seldom look like that, though I'm sure as quick as I typed it, someone will post a picture of a tree in the wild where this is true.

So even if you are planning on a shohin, less than 8 inches tall bonsai, you will still need to thicken the trunk over time.

The more I delve into the shohin/mame world the more I like the sumos. They look so gnarly when they're so short and stout with great ramification. With my premna I may go even shorter to accomplish that exaggeration you're talking about. I think a more practical approach for me may be to start with something that has a large enough trunk already and reduce the overall height accordingly.

Next spring I'm going to shave down that stump and I'll have a better visual of the overall silhouette, hopefully that leader will have thickened up enough to cut back. Don't worry I'll be sure to update you I know you'll be waiting with baited breath haha. Thanks so much for your input.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

LOL.

........I think a more practical approach for me may be to start with something that has a large enough trunk already and reduce the overall height accordingly.

This concept took me my first couple decades of "doing" bonsai to understand and fully embrace. It applies to the entire size range of bonsai. From Imperial size to Mame, this concept applies. It is the quickest way to get from pre-bonsai to a tree fit for a show.

 

[Omar]

Update - this little guy is cooked :/

I decided to remove the bottom right branch and changed what would be my front, all was well until 2 months ago. I repotted the first week of March and was admittedly a bit cavalier with root pruning. It dropped leaves weekly and dropped its last one yesterday. I scratched the bark and its still bright fleshy green but I've never had a plant react this poorly to a repotting with the effects lasting this long. I suspect it won't make a comeback

 

[Victorim]

Think you need to leave it alone and hope for the best..

 

[Omar]

Think you need to leave it alone and hope for the best..

Yeah I haven't touched it since I repotted but nothing's changed. I'm just hoping for buds any day now but I highly doubt i'll see any.