Styling advice- should I tell him?

[amcoffeegirl]

I have a friend with a nice Chinese Elm that has a beautiful canopy but a very ugly root base because of a crossing root. He has not asked for my advice on his tree so I have given none.
I think if I tell him he will take it personally and be mad. Lol
I can’t show a photo for obvious reasons. Lol.

 

[Cajunrider]

If you tell him and he gets mad, he's not a worthwhile friend to have. I don't hold back with my friends and expect them to tell me when I am wrong. I'd rather hear criticism from friends than jeers from enemies.

 

[JudyB]

I think I would pick my moment to tell him, when he seems receptive. But I would certainly say something. To not and then have him find out later that it was a huge flaw that could be fixed and you didn't tell him? I think that would be worse. Besides that is what friends in bonsai are for.

 

[TomB]

Unless he asks your opinion, say nothing.

 

[Smoke]

Big question. Did he make the tree from crapsai and had the chops to get it there? Or did he buy a more finished tree? If he built it, he probably aware of his rootage but doesn't want to ugly the tree up for the time it takes. If he didn't make it he probably has no clue how to fix it. For the record, most elms can have half their roots pruned off and not even blink.

 

[Shinjuku]

I’ve found many times that when you tell someone what the solution is, they are not often receptive to it. Often times, it’s because their pride is in the way. After all, no mother wants to be told that they have an ugly baby.

I’ve found a lot of success with helping people find the solution on their own as opposed to pointing out the flaw and telling them what the solution is. Sometimes, this can be as simple as asking the other person open-ended questions.

What do you think about that root on your tree?
Have you seen other trees with roots like that?
If you could wave a magic wand, what would you do with that root?
Etc.

Some people are very blunt and are receptive to blunt advice, but most are not. Since this is your friend, the friendship is more important than some silly root. So however you communicate with your friend about the root, do so in a way that he/she can accept, which could be not saying anything at all.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Honestly, I try to not offer advice unless I’m asked, which happens. However, there might be an opportunity to inquire about the crossing root, as in, “what do you see as a plan for the base over the next few years?” Maybe that would open the door a little.

 

[amcoffeegirl]

Big question. Did he make the tree from crapsai and had the chops to get it there? Or did he buy a more finished tree? If he built it, he probably aware of his rootage but doesn't want to ugly the tree up for the time it takes. If he didn't make it he probably has no clue how to fix it. For the record, most elms can have half their roots pruned off and not even blink.

He bought it the way it is.
He didn’t build it.
At this time I will likely say nothing because I tend to be very direct when I speak.
However if I see it again and he’s done any work to it then I might feel it’s needed.

 

[Smoke]

He bought it the way it is.
He didn’t build it.
At this time I will likely say nothing because I tend to be very direct when I speak.
However if I see it again and he’s done any work to it then I might feel it’s needed.

I like your style....

 

[Bonsai Nut]

When I hang out with bonsai friends, we often critique each others' trees, but that is kinda the rule and we expect it. I get some great ideas from some of their comments.

However if I just went over to someone's house and saw they had bonsai trees, I wouldn't critique their trees unless they asked for my opinion. I might ask questions about where they got their trees, or how they are caring for them, but I would never lead with a critical commentary.

 

[Smoke]

When I hang out with bonsai friends, we often critique each others' trees, but that is kinda the rule and we expect it. I get some great ideas from some of their comments.

However if I just went over to someone's house and saw they had bonsai trees, I wouldn't critique their trees unless they asked for my opinion. I might ask questions about where they got their trees, or how they are caring for them, but I would never lead with a critical commentary.

1. bonsai friends,

2. went over to someone's house

I think that might apply to anything in life, if you don't know them. I wouldn't comment on how they keep up their yard or house, what kinda beater they drive or how ugly their kids are.

If the guy is a friend, are there levels of friendship where commenting about a tree is wrong?

I've never met Marky Scott nor do I talk on the phone, but I consider him enough of a friend that I could make a suggestion about his elm. The difference being that he posted it here and the guy with the other elm has not opened it up to public scrutiny.

 

[amcoffeegirl]

I guess if someone saw something in my tree that I should take a second look at then I personally would want to know.
Depending on how valid it was or if I liked their trees then I would consider the change.

I took my forest to the Iowa Bonsai Association today and they did critique it.
They did not like the way the wire had been left on so long and how deeply the branches were cut in.
They did over all like the tree though. Even if it has an even number of trees. Lol

In nature trees do not grow with perfect harmony but we still try to create harmony in our plantings.

 

[Deleted member 21616]

He has not asked for my advice on his tree so I have given none.
I think if I tell him he will take it personally and be mad.

in a recent mirai podcast they were discussing the peculiar nature of critique in the world of bonsai. People tend to freely share “what i would do” with a tree, even in the presence of, if not directly to, the owner whose heart went into the tree

there are pros and cons to that

Everybody in bonsai has at some point received advice or an interpretation of their tree that they didn’t ask for. Not everybody is as welcoming to this. But my point is that we in the bonsai world are accustomed to patiently reading/listening to the views of others, even those that we don’t necessarily agree with

If somebody can’t listen to somebody’s well-intended and thoughtfully expressed view and give them the benefit of the doubt about where that view is coming from, well that person probably has bigger issues than his or her crossing roots

I would open the convo along the lines suggested above by @Brian Van Fleet

 

[Silentrunning]

If your friend doesn’t plan on showing the tree or having it judged I would say nothing. If it brings enjoyment to them that is all that matters. If they are going to show the tree and have it judged, they will find out real quick about bad roots.

 

[coh]

in a recent mirai podcast they were discussing the peculiar nature of critique in the world of bonsai. People tend to freely share “what i would do” with a tree, even in the presence of, if not directly to, the owner whose heart went into the tree

there are pros and cons to that

Everybody in bonsai has at some point received advice or an interpretation of their tree that they didn’t ask for. Not everybody is as welcoming to this. But my point is that we in the bonsai world are accustomed to patiently reading/listening to the views of others, even those that we don’t necessarily agree with

If somebody can’t listen to somebody’s well-intended and thoughtfully expressed view and give them the benefit of the doubt about where that view is coming from, well that person probably has bigger issues than his or her crossing roots

I would open the convo along the lines suggested above by @Brian Van Fleet

This seems reasonable to me. I have no problem with anyone - whether they do bonsai or not, whether I consider them a friend or not - offering their thoughts
on one of my trees. Yeah, I've probably noticed that straight branch or the lack of taper or the misplaced root. Maybe there is a good reason why I've left it and
we can have a discussion about that. On the other hand, maybe I haven't noticed it or considered that it might be a problem, so someone bringing it up could
help improve the tree.

What I do have a problem with is when people use terms like "ugly" or "wrong"...those are pejorative/negative terms that do not help move the discussion forward. If you
cannot express yourself more eloquently than that, you should probably keep your "thoughts" to yourself.

 

[Nanuk]

It depends on just how close of friends you are.
Me and my real close friends don't hold anything back on ANY subject.
We give and take advice all the time. That doesn't mean that I always do what my friends say.
But I always listen, but my friends know I will feel free not to take their advice if I don't agree.

People that I know but not real close, I hold back a lot more.
I can be rather blunt myself.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

If he asks your advice give it freely. If he’s not such a good friend tell him anyway!

 

[amcoffeegirl]

What I do have a problem with is when people use terms like "ugly" or "wrong"...those are pejorative/negative terms that do not help move the discussion forward. If you
cannot express yourself more eloquently than that, you should probably keep your "thoughts" to yourself.

If I choose to use the word ugly then I should not speak?
The tree itself is lovely for its age. It’s not a showstopper but it does have some great qualities. The base actually distracts from its beauty.
To me that means ugly. (shrug)

 

[cheap_walmart_art]

I wish someone with more experience would freely offer advice or critique my trees. I value that kind of one on one feedback. Especially if it's detailed and not just "that's a poor tree." Helps me to know what to look for in the future.

 

[coh]

If I choose to use the word ugly then I should not speak?
The tree itself is lovely for its age. It’s not a showstopper but it does have some great qualities. The base actually distracts from its beauty.
To me that means ugly. (shrug)

Let's try it this way. That Jim Smith ficus you recently purchased...I look at that group and it gives me the impression that almost no thought
was put into the design, or that it was neglected for years. The trunks don't seem to have any rhyme or reason, there are many straight sections,
trunks overlap each other, there are wire scars, bases and surface roots are bulky/lumpy. You even commented on "a lot of straight trunks".

If I provide a commentary like that, does it help if I also say "it's ugly"? Or if I just say "the trunks are ugly"? Obviously there was something about it
that appealed to you, or the things I find ugly don't appear that way to you.

It just doesn't help.