Styling and Design

iconvoid

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OK, Newbie question #2.

There seems to be a ton of resources out there for horticulture and technique, and I'm greedily soaking up all I can. I'm having less luck though with the kinds of design principles that drive individual pruning and wiring decisions. I know there a set of traditional style (upright, cascade, windswept, etc.) and that the idiosyncracies of individual material will help dictate what kind of style to pursue. But for people without a strong design background, where did you go to learn to see the inner forms that bonsai practice reveals? What basic principles do you draw on (I'm thinking of things like proportions of branches to trunks, for example.)

All recommendations welcome!
 

Japonicus

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An entire book could be written to answer your questions.
Nature, books, internet pictures, bonsai gardens all lend inspiration.

One question is what material you're using to get to the style, be it nursery stock
cuttings, pre-bonsai which already has a style perceived, but may be altered to a degree
more on younger stock, maybe an air layer.

"But for people without a strong design background, where did you go to learn to see the inner forms that bonsai practice reveals?"
A turntable with the project in front of me...in short. For the 1st 18 years I did not own a turntable.
Now that I have one, it is indispensable.

Do you have a particular project on hand you have questions about where to begin?
If so, post pictures from multiple view points, and get some experienced eyes and feedback on it.
Better to do that than post, now that I ruined it, or did this or that, what now...;)
 

iconvoid

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Sorry if I wasn't more clear. What I'm looking for is actual principles that drive design. I already know a few, but I'd be awfully surprised if there weren't some books out there compiling them (which is not to imply there's a single canonical bible). Who's got examples of such books (or websites, or podcasts, or what have you) that have been helpful to you? I'd love to see some titles/links.
 

Smoke

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This is a great book. Broken down by section, and fully illustrated with great pictures and drawings. This is all you need. The rest is all talent.

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Smoke

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The book is laid out in design principles like Depth, Rupture, Dynamic Equilibrium, Impulse, etc.

Each section shows pictures and drawings on how to best describe the trait. They are simple and easy to follow and all you need. The rest is practise and talent. This book is not a wiring 101 primer as there are other books that deal with that aspect. This is simply a design book.

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iconvoid

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The book is laid out in design principles like Depth, Rupture, Dynamic Equilibrium, Impulse, etc.

Each section shows pictures and drawings on how to best describe the trait. They are simple and easy to follow and all you need. The rest is practise and talent. This book is not a wiring 101 primer as there are other books that deal with that aspect. This is simply a design book.

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Bulls eye, thanks!
 

River's Edge

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Sorry if I wasn't more clear. What I'm looking for is actual principles that drive design. I already know a few, but I'd be awfully surprised if there weren't some books out there compiling them (which is not to imply there's a single canonical bible). Who's got examples of such books (or websites, or podcasts, or what have you) that have been helpful to you? I'd love to see some titles/links.
I also use the following Book. Great combo with Francois Jeker!
Principles of Bonsai Design by David DeGroot. Published 2015.
 

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Adair M

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Let’s not forget John Naka’s Bonsai Techniques 1 and 2.
 

Woocash

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Harry Harrington has a section called ‘The Application of Art Principles in Bonsai’ on his website. Makes for an interesting read because it explains a little bit about natures own design principles and how it relates to bonsai. Alternatively, just google the golden ratio. Whether bonsai or not, follow the theory and you won’t go far wrong.
 

Smoke

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Bulls eye, thanks!
Just know that you can read all of these books until you can recite any page to rote for anyone on que. It will NOT make you a better artist. Books are really written for people that already know how to do the art and have then validate the book based on what it really takes to do bonsai. In other words Walter Pall can tell you it's a good book. Bolero could not. Bolero is not going to get better because he read a great book suggested by a great artist like Walter Pall.

There are a million books on how to paint. If you have no natural talent as an artist I don't care how many books you read your always gonna paint like a third grader.

You want to get good at bonsai? Go buy a hundred one gallon procumbens junipers and a few rolls of wire. I will bet you by the time you get done with that last tree, you will know inside if you have what it takes.
 

Paulpash

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Don't disregard this forum either:

There are many pictures of very good trees from MACH5, Brian van Fleet, Adair et al. Looking at pictures is a great way to teach yourself.

Ask yourself where branches are placed and the negative space this also creates.

Look at nebari, trunk size, taper and movement. Does this impact on its masculinity or feminity?

Going to shows and seeing quality trees irl is even better.
 

Smoke

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Harry Harrington has a section called ‘The Application of Art Principles in Bonsai’ on his website. Makes for an interesting read because it explains a little bit about natures own design principles and how it relates to bonsai. Alternatively, just google the golden ratio. Whether bonsai or not, follow the theory and you won’t go far wrong.
So...would you buy material based on the Golden Mean? Would you not buy material that didn't fit that criteria? It's hard enough to find GOOD material, seems this might really create a problem.
 

Woocash

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No that’s not what I meant really, but it’s a fair point. The OP asked about information for those without a design background and I think its fair to say that the golden ratio is a rule of thumb that nature uses in a very large amount, if not the majority of it’s own architecture, so to speak. Although, by following the principle of it to the letter, you may end up with some designs (not just in bonsai) that are rather formulaic, you will probably end up with something at least pleasing to the eye. The next step up is where the artistry comes in to play, in my opinion. That is where I can not help and defer to you experienced folk :)
 

Smoke

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No that’s not what I meant really, but it’s a fair point. The OP asked about information for those without a design background and I think its fair to say that the golden ratio is a rule of thumb that nature uses in a very large amount, if not the majority of it’s own architecture, so to speak. Although, by following the principle of it to the letter, you may end up with some designs (not just in bonsai) that are rather formulaic, you will probably end up with something at least pleasing to the eye. The next step up is where the artistry comes in to play, in my opinion. That is where I can not help and defer to you experienced folk :)
I THINK....like a lot of thing in art or bonsai, the Golden Mean is applied to the art later as a means of reference as to why the art works, rather than a tool or blueprint to actually do the art. No artist can work within the confines of the golden mean as a tool for design, especially with what nature throws at us in terms of trunk movement, branch placement, branch movement, taper and flare.

After you have created your masterpiece, us people that critique your work, will probably try and explain to newbies why your masterpiece is so great by how well it fits the Golden Mean, while you never even thought about it.
 

Woocash

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That is probably true as well, to be fair and would show why you’ve either got it or you haven’t, artistically speaking. I remember when I was at college and we got shown the principle when studying graphic design. It was never something we got taught at school and it just resonated with me and why certain pieces worked and why others didn’t - it put some science behind simply looking good and I like all that stuff. It was also one of those things that was so obvious in hindsight, but gave a ‘eureka’ moment for those that struggled with composition, perspective, depth etc. Artists would place things naturally, other people need a user manual sometimes.
 
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