Substrate, wooden boxes, pond baskets & colanders

[Japonicus]

Been doing it my way a while, and the more I read the newer to bonsai I feel.
That can be both good and bad, nonetheless less, I need to step it up and learn some new stuff.
This is why I chose this forum New to Bonsai for this thread, and help other new comers as well.

1st Substrate (and most important besides timing)
Boon mix, 2288?? (sp), pre-made, Tiny Roots, Akadama, turface, lava rock, fine pine bark mulch, river sand, chicken grit...

If the roots are happy, and for a longer time, the tree will mirror this evident above ground.

I need to order more bonsai soil or components, to make my own.
My trees performed very well in their environment using the Masters mix from Bonsai Monk in Conyers, Ga
which has since closed their online store. If I knew the components well and %'s I could try to match it, I don't though.
For tree height, I like the 10-30" size 1-2 hands.
For tree types, I have mostly juniper 70% and BP roots 20%. The rest are WP, cypress, cedar, and maybe a spruce or fir.
My plants are exposed to mostly Full Sun and get watered in the morning before I run out the door to work in the Summer.
This is "their environment" mentioned above. They may rest atop the porch railing if no wind storms forecasted
or several will be directly on the deck which gets unbearably HOT and can soup up and cook the roots if the soil
has broken down or the tree just is ready for a repotting. When I get home late afternoon, they get watered again if needed
or a quick drizzle

Last choice of pre made soil, the Akadama well, the entire mix was damp when I opened it and
the akadama was basically back to mud already. This breaks down too fast for my environment
and the time a tree spends between repotting is reduced. Maybe a quirk with the otherwise same
visual make up, as the Bonsai Monk soil I loved to use, but I don't have enough for Springtime regardless.

Boon being mentioned often, grabs my attention 1st. What is it? Is it a recipe, is it a pre-made commodity how do I get it?

I will upload a picture of the current pre made 5g bucket of soil I have later. Just trying to get my options within reason.

Pots to follow...

 

[Japonicus]

2nd - the home for the roots

What to place the substrate and tree into.

Pond baskets, colanders, homemade wooden pots, mica, terra cotta...

I'm not talking about choice of pot type to compliment the type and style of tree.
I'm talking about I cannot afford good bonsai pots, and my tree and or roots still need to grow
and their environment could get harsh with heat. I don't want them to get crispy in a nice bonsai pot
and the pond baskets scream O2 to me as well as depth. Depth can be advantageous to me as I don't
seem to follow most bonsai rules. If it's not fun, there's no winning for the tree or myself.
I mean the roots can be a little cooler in theory, and more moist if there's more soil depth, for a little longer while
waiting on me to come home and move to shade late in the day, and or water per needs.

* The pond baskets look like the soil could dry faster, as do the colanders. ?? Depth...??
They look like a perfect training environment in ground. What about above ground?

* I'm not really diggin' the colander bit above ground personally.

* I like Mica pots. I am a fan of them but...they're not as cheap as I remember them being 5 yrs ago.

* Wooden boxes.
Ok, I like working with wood. What then should the boxes be made of?
How thick a material? Is cedar preferable or something less expensive?
How about overwintering and design of the box considering maybe the tree
gets buried in ground healed in, or just mulched in a protected area?

Thanks for your thoughts. Just trying to be a tree hugger here and have fun while doing it too.

 

[Sn0W]

Boon mix is 1:1:1 Akadama, pumice and lava

 

[Gaitano]

I'll chime in on the wood grow boxes. I can crank them out rather quick and effortlessly. I use cedar 1.5" X 2.5" and 1" poplar for the feet. I cut them into 8 or 10 inch pieces (7 of them). Four for the sides and three for the bottom. Then I cut four 1"x1" poplar feet for each of the corners. I have 1/8" chicken wire that I cut and staple to the bottom. Glue and brad nail them together. The cedar holds up well for numerous seasons.

 

[Japonicus]

3rdly Automatic watering.

Having been keeping bonsai about 20 yrs, and knowing a schedule is not basic good practice...
as mentioned above, I water early before the Sun gets going (weather savvy if needed) and check again maybe 10 hrs later.
I don't want to lose a tree because of my schedule and I've seen pictures of pots on BN with
what appears to be automatic watering systems. Do they use a probe and computer like controller?
i.e. in the aquarium hobby, we use probes to measure pH and add limewater or buffer accordingly
in controlled rates/dosing, or float switches or photo eye to automatically add DI water to keep the salinity stable.
Is there anything like this for the bonsai hobby or does the watering take place by the clock setting only?

 

[Japonicus]

Boon mix is 1:1:1 Akadama, pumice and lava

Thanks SnOW. So it is a recipe.
Too heavy on the Akadama for me. I would have to change the ratio some for pines and juniper.
Is the 2 Line hard fired Akadama the best choice for that ingredient?

 

[Japonicus]

I'll chime in on the wood grow boxes. I can crank them out rather quick and effortlessly. I use cedar 1.5" X 2.5" and 1" poplar for the feet. I cut them into 8 or 10 inch pieces (7 of them). Four for the sides and three for the bottom. Then I cut four 1"x1" poplar feet for each of the corners. I have 1/8" chicken wire that I cut and staple to the bottom. Glue and brad nail them together. The cedar holds up well for numerous seasons.

Thank you Gaitano for chiming in.
I was thinking cedar would weather best. Do you treat it with anything?

1.5" thick sounds a bit heavy for what I was imagining. Do you think 1x would be ok?
I use plastic window screen in the bottom of my pots. I hope this is ok.
I do sift the fines out 1st, but Father Time makes more fines as time goes.

 

[Wilson]

Wooden grow boxes can be 3/4" thick if that's what you have. Wood can be all types, depending on how long you want them to last. You can spend money on cedar or hemlock, or use wood from pallets. I like pond baskets, they are inexpensive and durable. For substrates you should be able to get all the ingredients you need fairly easily. I like your idea to start this thread, a real meeting of the minds!

 

[Japonicus]

Wooden grow boxes can be 3/4" thick if that's what you have. Wood can be all types, depending on how long you want them to last. You can spend money on cedar or hemlock, or use wood from pallets. I like pond baskets, they are inexpensive and durable. For substrates you should be able to get all the ingredients you need fairly easily. I like your idea to start this thread, a real meeting of the minds!

Thanks Wilson! I've been meaning to start this thread for about 3 weeks now. Gee time flies.
Double checked my inventory and my pre made soil is down to ~ 2.5g and I didn't pot up that much last year.
It's time to order the components or already past time for many really. The soil I am currently using
I'm going to guess at (%'s not stated on their web site)
25" Lava rock
20% Akadama
25% Turface
25% river sand?
??% the rest

This is hugely a rough guestimate.
I started playing around with Tiny Roots for conifers since it has no or little akadama to improve
or really, try to overcome the poor akadama in my mix. I'm not going to throw out a 5g bucket of soil
that costed me $145 with shipping.

I kinda like the idea of fine pine bark mulch and akadama in a 1:1 ratio for a change up to what I have
added into my mix, rather than the akadama alone. Being organic, is that an issue?

 

[Wilson]

Organics in the soil is one of those topics that get the soil debates going! Pine bark is good to hold moisture, and fertilizer. A lot of folks go purely inorganic. I will add pine bark into my mix, the other components are pretty fast draining.

 

[Gaitano]

Thank you Gaitano for chiming in.
I was thinking cedar would weather best. Do you treat it with anything?

1.5" thick sounds a bit heavy for what I was imagining. Do you think 1x would be ok?
I use plastic window screen in the bottom of my pots. I hope this is ok.
I do sift the fines out 1st, but Father Time makes more fines as time goes.

I need to make a correction. The cedar is .5" X 2.5". 1" would be really sturdy, but might be too thick depending on what size you are making. I do not treat the boxes with anything. I mainly use these for deciduous. My pines or conifers go in H.D. pond baskets. They are cheap, deeper and stand up very well.

 

[River's Edge]

2nd - the home for the roots

What to place the substrate and tree into.

Pond baskets, colanders, homemade wooden pots, mica, terra cotta...

I'm not talking about choice of pot type to compliment the type and style of tree.
I'm talking about I cannot afford good bonsai pots, and my tree and or roots still need to grow
and their environment could get harsh with heat. I don't want them to get crispy in a nice bonsai pot
and the pond baskets scream O2 to me as well as depth. Depth can be advantageous to me as I don't
seem to follow most bonsai rules. If it's not fun, there's no winning for the tree or myself.
I mean the roots can be a little cooler in theory, and more moist if there's more soil depth, for a little longer while
waiting on me to come home and move to shade late in the day, and or water per needs.

* The pond baskets look like the soil could dry faster, as do the colanders. ?? Depth...??
They look like a perfect training environment in ground. What about above ground?

* I'm not really diggin' the colander bit above ground personally.

* I like Mica pots. I am a fan of them but...they're not as cheap as I remember them being 5 yrs ago.

* Wooden boxes.
Ok, I like working with wood. What then should the boxes be made of?
How thick a material? Is cedar preferable or something less expensive?
How about overwintering and design of the box considering maybe the tree
gets buried in ground healed in, or just mulched in a protected area?

Thanks for your thoughts. Just trying to be a tree hugger here and have fun while doing it too.

My mix is as follows:
20% Akadama
40 %Horticultural Pumice
20% Black Lava
20 % Granite Grit
For grow boxes i use either the Anderson deep propagation flat or wooden grow box.
For building material i use pine or cedar fence boards.
Dimensions are 3/4" thick called a 1 by 6 by 6 ft long

 

[StoneCloud]

One thing with grow boxes, don't use treated wood.

Not good for the roots!

 

[M. Frary]

I use napa8822 D.E. and lava in everything.
Colanders are all off of the ground. Putting them on or in the ground defeats the whole purpose. May as well leave them in a bucket.
Never used a grow box. For larger collected trees I use nursery buckets. After the tree has recovered I trim roots down to fit in the colander.
I water once per day. Bonsai pots,colanders,buckets,whatever.
Once you figure out your soil mix that works for you,you learn how to adjust it for each tree species.

 

[River's Edge]

I use napa8822 D.E. and lava in everything.
Colanders are all off of the ground. Putting them on or in the ground defeats the whole purpose. May as well leave them in a bucket.
Never used a grow box. For larger collected trees I use nursery buckets. After the tree has recovered I trim roots down to fit in the colander.
I water once per day. Bonsai pots,colanders,buckets,whatever.
Once you figure out your soil mix that works for you,you learn how to adjust it for each tree species.

It only defeats the purpose if you only had one purpose for using a colandar. Ie: air pruning. There are other purposes. Allowing one to develop feeder roots by cutting the thicker ones that poke out of the bigger holes. Then turning the tree for more even development while maintaining and even temperature, moisture control for better root growth. Not as easy when you just plant it in the ground. Perhaps this is a tool that works when you adjust it for a different purpose.

 

[Tieball]

Wood boxes. I use treated wood. Basically 1 x 6 and 1 x 2 and then 2 x 2 for the lift off the table legs. I used Cedar in the past. I found cedar to not weather that well actually and it seems to attract a lot of moss growth...especially on the ends. The treated woood boxes I have last a long time....well the first box I made is still in use after almost 7 years. The trees in the boxes do well. Actually, whether Cedar or Treated, the trees do well...the treated just lasts longer and holds up better in my climate. I’ve never had a growing problem with treated wood...my roots grow just fine and healthy.

For some trees I cut the 1 x 6 wood donw to the equal of a 1 x 4. Just for a more shallow growing container.

The wood gives me greater insulation and root protection whether it’s the summer heat or the belong zero winter. The boxes sit outdoors in rain, snow, sleet... whatever the weather gives up. No warp problems. No deterioration so far.

I have a big ole box of stainless steel screws so that’s what I use for assembly. I don’t like nails for boxes. Screws hold much better...and more easily removed when necessary. Screws can snug up a corner joint must better than a nail.

I line the bottom with 1 x 2 planks screwed to the legs which are long-screwed to the bottom of the sides. Never had a base failure. There is a gap of 1/16” to 1/8” around the entire inside as well as between each plank. Drainage works well. Critters don’t enter through the base planks.

And I like the feel of working with wood. The trees like the boxes very well. I can make a box as big or as small as wanted, however, I have continually used, for the most part, boxes that are about 12” x 13” inside measurements.

Not pictured...I also built a platform that sits on 2 x 2s. The size is just smaller than the inside of the boxes...so I know exactly the root spread size I want to match...and it’s just more fun to work on top of that nifty platform. The platform is made with 2x stock for more heft and weight...sort of like a thick cutting board.

 

[Anthony]

Ground grow for trunk size and 6 branches, using a colander, which aids in recovery,
when the colander is dug up.

Second stage is an over sized plastic bonsai pot or just an over sized bonsai
pot. This is for branch / branchlet ----REFINING..

Unless it is a softwood, nothing will expand a trunk like ground growing.

Soil is 5 mm inorganic and aged compost.
Here is an image of a tree in training.

In case you need verification of growing experience ------- coming up to 40 years.
Good Day
Anthony

Presently just over an inch, was 1/2 inch last month.
Chlorophora t.
Grow trough

 

[sorce]

mean the roots can be a little cooler in theory, and more moist if there's more soil depth, for a little longer while

Depth...?

Due to the water table effect, depth actually works against us in that the water sits and holds lower than the surface roots we want to keep healthy.

A shallow pot will remain moist longer.

Backwards world!

Bronze that $145 bucket of Soil! Or use it in a grow bed.....sift out the kaka? Don't get got twice by using it and losing a tree!

8822 is KISS KING!
Your timer could be set for right before you leave for work, and right before you get home, so you only have to do quick spot checks.

Most important if using auto sprinklers is to make sure you have a good 1/4 lip to catch water, and I dont think I would trust it with Colanders, unless you have a nozzle to water each side as well.

8822, Mad Water...

Sorce

 

[Anthony]

@sorce ,

how about this. Colander dries out faster -------- so --------- you
use a wetter mix, probably more organic.

Plant loves it, grows well.

Then you transfer to a bonsai pot -------- but ------------ at your tree's core
is a lot of organic. So the plant does the next thing ----------- starts to grow
thick non feeder roots.

So you back step and after the colander, you bare root, then go to the bonsai
pot.

BUT only a softwood will thicken in a pot.

To get a trunk, you still have to go to the ground growing with a colander.

Perhaps it is easier on the nerves to just ground grow / colander / tile if needed.
Then dig up, leave in colander for a few months.
Transfer to a larger container to refine the tree.
Good Day
Anthony

* or do as someone told me was an old practice.
Place colander on the ground and let the roots underneath just escape.
Lie down and train the tree.

 

[dirk hoorelbeke]

Here wooden boxes from untreated pine (cheap) in different sizes. Height 4 inches. Good quality akadama or akadama- pumice depending on the species. Might ad lava in the future. Pond baskets do well for pines but they dry out fast and that's the reason to use them. (Water and feed more). Ground growing when roots are established for bigger trunks.