M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
I owe everyone here especially COH an apology for what I was posting earlier today. It won't happen again. Once again I am truly sorry. If anyone thinks less of me I deserve it. No excuses.
Suckling it up.
- Thread starter M. Frary
- Start date
Cadillactaste
Neagari Gal
Very big of you Mike...I stopped following the big hoopla. So I missed it. Since you apologized...I see no reason to go looking for it either. I just happened to click on the wrong link and see Rob's collection of creatures. Cool stuff!
Poink88
Imperial Masterpiece
You won't find it even if you look...the thread is being wiped clean as we speak. Admin brought the big broom out I guess.
october
Masterpiece
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
Thanks Rob. It brought a smile to a face that needs one.
I would like to say thank you to everyone here. I met some really cool people (on the forum ) and wish everyone a long and happy and healthy life.
I'm saying good-bye now.
Thanks to everyone who gave me good advice.
I would like to say thank you to everyone here. I met some really cool people (on the forum ) and wish everyone a long and happy and healthy life.
I'm saying good-bye now.
Thanks to everyone who gave me good advice.
wireme
Masterpiece
You're leaving the forum?
Damn and you were one of the only people replying to any of my threads!
Have a good time out there, enjoy the trees!
Damn and you were one of the only people replying to any of my threads!
Have a good time out there, enjoy the trees!
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Cadillactaste
Neagari Gal
Your leaving. Hope its only a breather and you'll be back.
coh
Imperial Masterpiece
Mike,
I appreciate you saying that. I'm also sorry that we wound up going at each other that way. I had no beef with you prior to that incident.
Sounds like you are planning to leave the forum. I'm sorry to hear that; maybe you'll reconsider. As I mentioned in the other thread, I'm also at that point. There are many people here I've come to like interacting with, but - there is something about this place that brings out a side of me that is not healthy. Well, not something - it's obviously the unmoderated nature of the place and the fact that people are allowed to treat each other like shit with no consequences. I don't know why that bothers me so much, but it does.
About a year ago there was another similar battle and Smoke and I had a little exchange via PM. I remember him saying something along the lines that "when Bnut (Greg) thinks there's a problem, he'll step in and do something. Otherwise, we should just mind our own business since it's his forum." At the time I kind of brushed that aside, but now I realize that I've been fighting against that and trying to enforce my view of how the forum should operate...which of course makes me part of the problem (something I've never denied). It is Greg's forum, and I think it's finally become obvious to me that there will be no changing it. Some here are OK with that, are somehow able to look the other way when the shit flies. I wish I knew how they did it! But we are all different, and that's what makes the world so interesting.
Anyway...I don't yet know if I'll be leaving permanently but I'm going to take a break and think about it. I'll be at the National Exhibition most of the weekend - would like to meet/talk with any fellow bnutters who will be there.
Chris
raydomz
Shohin
It seems like I decided to follow the forum again at precisely the wrong time.
A little over a year ago I decided, even though I was not really posting that much, to take a step back. I came back with high hopes but to be honest the quality just isn't here. It's really a shame, but all things have their life span.
Coh, I too will be at the national show and would love to meet any of you guys that are there.
A little over a year ago I decided, even though I was not really posting that much, to take a step back. I came back with high hopes but to be honest the quality just isn't here. It's really a shame, but all things have their life span.
Coh, I too will be at the national show and would love to meet any of you guys that are there.
thams
Omono
I agree it's been a little rough around here. I've taken a step back as well recently, but I still come to read up on the interesting posts. Even though I'm not a "valued member," I still enjoy being a part of the bonsai community and posting up little projects here and there. Thanks to those who take the time to post meaningful threads! You know who you are.
Rockwellbonsai
Mame
- Messages
- 186
- Reaction score
- 1
- USDA Zone
- 6
I would like to apologize for acting like I know a lot. I don't mean to.
KennedyMarx
Omono
Frary, I hope you're just taking a breather and not leaving the forum. I like seeing your trees. I think the whole thread soured just about everyone. I don't recall ever seeing you get nasty with anyone before.
Redwood Ryan
Masterpiece
I'm with you Mike. I, too, am logging out for the last time. It's been a good time these past 5 years, but this place is running itself to the ground. See you all around.
Rockwellbonsai
Mame
- Messages
- 186
- Reaction score
- 1
- USDA Zone
- 6
You know, I think I might log out forever as well.
I think its time I get off the internet and go to clubs or books for knowledge, like the old days.
thank you everyone for all the help. See you later.
I think its time I get off the internet and go to clubs or books for knowledge, like the old days.
thank you everyone for all the help. See you later.
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
Ryan I'm going to respond to this post, but understand that my comments are not directed at you as a person, but rather the situation in general.
This site was created to bring people together around the art of bonsai. It was not created to teach people how to act their age, or how to be a good Internet resident, or even how to play well with others. I spend a ton of time and money on this site just keeping it running; if I have to moderate everyone's behavior I would seriously ask myself "what's the point?"
I do NOT enjoy heavily moderated sites - because you lose something in heavy moderation. And trust me - drama doesn't go away just because you moderate a lot - it is still there just seething under the surface. On rare occasion I will ban someone from the site, but it is often not due to behavior but rather simply from asking the question - is this person bringing more to the ART OF BONSAI than the drama or stress they are creating for the site? My tolerance is greater if you are having a bad day and venting - but the next day post a great article on pine care - then if you just come to the site and always seem to be arguing.
Which leads to the single most important point. It takes TWO to argue. I don't care who said what to whom first - but when I have go edit a 26 page thread because 5 or 6 people are busy yelling at each other for 20 pages I have to ask "don't you have anything better to do with your time?" If someone is being a jerk - imagined or real - just MOVE ON. You'd be amazed at how quickly an argument dies out when only one side is arguing. Go have a beer. Look at your trees. Watch a cat video on YouTube. Regardless, show that you have the maturity to walk away from a no-win scenario where all you are doing is diminishing your standing in the eyes of the rest of the members of the site - whether you understand it or not. The reality is that there are never winners in flame war threads... only losers.
Sorry about the rant, but you really need to ask yourself the question: if you aren't part of the problem are you part of the solution?
Dirty Nails
Shohin
It takes two to tango
berobinson82
Omono
Leaving the forum will net you a loss of information and lovely pictures. If you are simply an observer, you can choose to avoid the drama and only enjoy the threads that you enjoy. Don't you all enjoy seeing Mach's maples in autumn? How about when V dazzles us with pictures of her collection and Dan's? Have you followed BVF's threads for years? Can you soak up specific insights from people who specialize in species like smoke/vance?
It's a big latrine recently on this forum. When I've a question pertaining to bonsai and I ask google, often times I'm directed right here. Certainly google knows I enjoy the site but CERTAINLY the question was asked before on bnut.
You needn't act in the play to enjoy the show.
Cheers,
B
It's a big latrine recently on this forum. When I've a question pertaining to bonsai and I ask google, often times I'm directed right here. Certainly google knows I enjoy the site but CERTAINLY the question was asked before on bnut.
You needn't act in the play to enjoy the show.
Cheers,
B
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
You know what? The simple phrase "I'm sorry" also works wonders.
The easiest thing on the Internet is to be misunderstood. A simple turn of phrase, use of words, innocent expression, and suddenly you have someone thinking that you have just called them out for an Internet mud wrestling contest.
Conversely, if you are being the jerk, be honest and accept your behavior for what it is. Don't pee in the pool and then complain that the water smells.
The easiest thing on the Internet is to be misunderstood. A simple turn of phrase, use of words, innocent expression, and suddenly you have someone thinking that you have just called them out for an Internet mud wrestling contest.
Conversely, if you are being the jerk, be honest and accept your behavior for what it is. Don't pee in the pool and then complain that the water smells.
thams
Omono
I agree with all this. I'm not perfect, but I try to stay above the fray. Before I respond to any contentious post, I ask myself whether it would be sensible to have the same argument while standing in front of a display at the National Arboretum. For example, debating fertilizing regiments would be ok, but ranting about politics or calling someone an a-hole would not. Likewise, I only post stuff that I would 100% say to someone's face. I bet 95% of the ridiculous arguments would end before they began if they were said in person.
I'm not sure I would ever totally leave this site. A little time off - sure. There's just too much knowledge to gain from some incredible people to totally leave.
Eric Group
Masterpiece
I had a conversation with a fello Bnutter by Pm after all this mess happened the past few days and we talked about how a LITTLE BIT of moderation might help the forum. I agree that a heavily moderated forum, on ANY subject, sucks... But the flip of that- no rules- lets the trolls run wild and unchecked and people will try to moderate them on their own just to make the forum readable which leads to people screaming at each other and fighting all the time... There has to be a happy middle ground somewhere. Funny enough right after we talked about wishing there was just a little moderation here, I checked the forums again and suddenly that whole "sad" thread was locked and all the whinning and bitching was gone! That was a little moderation and a rational response IMO. Many of the sports forums I have been involved with- which are true magnets for trolls and quickly turn into people trashing each other with the most disgusting personal attacks imaginable- have forum members and participants promoted to be part time moderators. Not given tons of powers to ban people or something extreme, but they would be able to help remove spam and put the kibosh on posts that take attacks too far or use exteeme language, break forum rules... That sort of stuff.
As a former moderator of a forum for a local sports team I can say that it leads to some good and bad things, but it might be an option for you Bnut... If there was a person or two you trust to help you out with the time consuming stuff- the BS you mentioned that you don't have time for personally- it might help us all keep our sanity a bit, and help take out some of the garbage without over burdening you. Just something worth thinking about...
Regardless, I guess I have thick skin from battling trolls on the Internet for the past 15 years or so, but I hadn't even considered leaving this place. Sure, I get annoyed sometimes, but this is by far the most visited, active and interesting of the Bonsai forums I have come across over the years and while there may be some that are better to get info from "professionals", or some with more quality trees on display at times... This is easily the best one to visit in my opinion.
Obviously you who have said you are leaving felt the same or you would t have frequented this site as much as you did. So, if that is the case... Why let some trolls, a few sideways conversations or misunderstandings drive you away? Personally I take it as a challenge to fix a problem when It is worth fixing. This place sure ain't perfect but it is is way better than most sites and I'd much rather stick around and see if we can make it better than run off and spend my time on the boring forums just because I didn't like a few posters/ posts here. JMHO
I certainly hope those who have left and those who say they are leaving will think about it and return sometime... If you do you will find myself and the largest community of Bonsai people on the Internet waiting here for you. Not calling anybody out if they want to leave, that is your choice- just saying I don't get the rationale behind that move.
As a former moderator of a forum for a local sports team I can say that it leads to some good and bad things, but it might be an option for you Bnut... If there was a person or two you trust to help you out with the time consuming stuff- the BS you mentioned that you don't have time for personally- it might help us all keep our sanity a bit, and help take out some of the garbage without over burdening you. Just something worth thinking about...
Regardless, I guess I have thick skin from battling trolls on the Internet for the past 15 years or so, but I hadn't even considered leaving this place. Sure, I get annoyed sometimes, but this is by far the most visited, active and interesting of the Bonsai forums I have come across over the years and while there may be some that are better to get info from "professionals", or some with more quality trees on display at times... This is easily the best one to visit in my opinion.
Obviously you who have said you are leaving felt the same or you would t have frequented this site as much as you did. So, if that is the case... Why let some trolls, a few sideways conversations or misunderstandings drive you away? Personally I take it as a challenge to fix a problem when It is worth fixing. This place sure ain't perfect but it is is way better than most sites and I'd much rather stick around and see if we can make it better than run off and spend my time on the boring forums just because I didn't like a few posters/ posts here. JMHO
I certainly hope those who have left and those who say they are leaving will think about it and return sometime... If you do you will find myself and the largest community of Bonsai people on the Internet waiting here for you. Not calling anybody out if they want to leave, that is your choice- just saying I don't get the rationale behind that move.