Sumo Trident Maple?

Decoy Octopus

Yamadori
Messages
80
Reaction score
77
Location
Texas
USDA Zone
8b
This is my first time posting here. I picked up this trident maple stump in hopes that I might be able to turn it into a shohin sumo. It has some slight reverse taper issues from most angles except one. It's got some nasty cuts on top but I'm hoping as the years pass they'll begin to look better as it appears they had been sealed well. Just curious as to whether someone else has any ideas as to the direction of the tree that my newbie eyes are overlooking? I'm going to keep it in this gallon pot until next spring. I was thinking of attempting to make cuttings from the long shoots as I think I'll still have time as our summers are quite long in Central Texas. Any input, information, etc... would be appreciated!

First photo is my intended front, the second is the front including the long shoots and the third is the back. The sides of the tree are where the reverse taper is most evident and if so desired, I can upload those as well.

Thank you!
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0183.jpg
    IMG_0183.jpg
    86.2 KB · Views: 303
  • IMG_0182.jpg
    IMG_0182.jpg
    75.5 KB · Views: 244
  • IMG_0186.jpg
    IMG_0186.jpg
    91.2 KB · Views: 234

PaulH

Omono
Messages
1,807
Reaction score
4,432
Location
Rescue, CA
If anyone here can help you with this it's Smoke. Maybe he'll have a plan for you.
 

Smoke

Ignore-Amus
Messages
11,668
Reaction score
20,724
Location
Fresno, CA
USDA Zone
9
Wow! what a nice piece of raw material just itching to be turned into something.

I have some business to do currently so I will be back....bare with me.
 

Decoy Octopus

Yamadori
Messages
80
Reaction score
77
Location
Texas
USDA Zone
8b
Let me thank you in advance, Smoke, for your Trident Maple Chronicle post that I just spent the last hour reading through. Truly great information. I will keep it bookmarked so that I may use it as a reference tool in the future. I patiently await your return...
 

_-ll-_

Seedling
Messages
16
Reaction score
0
Location
Kentucky
USDA Zone
6/7
Let it grow for a while. I has great potential, just don't rush the process.
_-ll-_
 

Smoke

Ignore-Amus
Messages
11,668
Reaction score
20,724
Location
Fresno, CA
USDA Zone
9
Before I will really do some virtual work and really get a feel with where it may go, I need a couple more pics.

Scrape off the soil for about an inch from the base of the tree. I would like to see if there is a flare there. Many times what I thought was a great frontal view based on buying or winning a raffle or auction, was found to be inferior after a more through inspection of the base.

Like is this instance
The elm had a good flare which seemed to make the inverse taper seem no so "in your face". Turning the elm a little and showing the flare made the tree much better from a side that was terrible the way I purchased it.

Also label a view 90 degrees from each side of the first view that you had chosen as a front. I want to see more of what you speak about with this reverse taper. As far as the views you have showed I don't see it readily.

Also a good front on shot of the chop. I would like to see how what branches there are emitt from the chop area. One will have to be chosen and then a paring down of the wound will need to be done to close properly.

Once all this is seen then we can start with a new plan.
Best regards, Al
 

Decoy Octopus

Yamadori
Messages
80
Reaction score
77
Location
Texas
USDA Zone
8b
Here are the photos of the exposed base. Glad you had me do this as it definitely opens more doors. The third and fourth photos show the reverse taper that appears to be the result of the large cluster of shoots that had formed. I will post photos of the close up of the cuts in a second post below due to attachment limitations.

Thanks for taking the time to help me with this. I appreciate it!
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0188.jpg
    IMG_0188.jpg
    81 KB · Views: 172
  • IMG_0189.jpg
    IMG_0189.jpg
    83.9 KB · Views: 157
  • IMG_0190.jpg
    IMG_0190.jpg
    74.1 KB · Views: 146
  • IMG_0195.jpg
    IMG_0195.jpg
    79.8 KB · Views: 152

Decoy Octopus

Yamadori
Messages
80
Reaction score
77
Location
Texas
USDA Zone
8b
Sorry for the poor photo quality. If you'd like me to take any more or if I've missed something just let me know.

Thanks again.


Edit*** the third photo from the last post shows 270 degrees from the front, the second photo from this post is 180 degrees from the front, the third (from this post) is the front (as well as the first photo from the last post) and the fourth is 90 degrees from the front (this series of photos as well). Sorry for the spider-web of confusion...
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0198.jpg
    IMG_0198.jpg
    76.9 KB · Views: 70
  • IMG_0199.jpg
    IMG_0199.jpg
    84.6 KB · Views: 61
  • IMG_0201.jpg
    IMG_0201.jpg
    80.2 KB · Views: 62
  • IMG_0202.jpg
    IMG_0202.jpg
    74.3 KB · Views: 69
Last edited:

Decoy Octopus

Yamadori
Messages
80
Reaction score
77
Location
Texas
USDA Zone
8b
I realize the photos I posted last were poor not much could be gathered from them. It was difficult gaining photos of the exposed base within the lip of the pot while maintaining a distance showing the outline of the tree. I'm posting more photos with a better lighting setup and at a distance. The first photo is the presumed front and each photo a 90 degree turn from there.

I in no way tend to rush you as I have all winter to wait.

I did however cut back some of the tall shoots in an attempt to gather some cuttings before winter. I hope this wasn't a grievous error.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0205.jpg
    IMG_0205.jpg
    60.7 KB · Views: 113
  • IMG_0207.jpg
    IMG_0207.jpg
    57.4 KB · Views: 101
  • IMG_0211.jpg
    IMG_0211.jpg
    57.7 KB · Views: 104
  • IMG_0212.jpg
    IMG_0212.jpg
    53.2 KB · Views: 125

Smoke

Ignore-Amus
Messages
11,668
Reaction score
20,724
Location
Fresno, CA
USDA Zone
9
I havn't forgot...just putting together my thoughts.....radical I say.
 

buffrider

Mame
Messages
116
Reaction score
1
Location
oklahoma
Let me thank you in advance, Smoke, for your Trident Maple Chronicle post that I just spent the last hour reading through. Truly great information. I will keep it bookmarked so that I may use it as a reference tool in the future. I patiently await your return...

Could someone direct me to this.....?
 

Jason

Chumono
Messages
502
Reaction score
148
Location
Western Oregon
USDA Zone
8
I just drank three pints of beer, so keep that in mind....;)

I'd pick one main leader. Preferably, I'd keep the most distal one on one of the two main bifurcations (the left one in your first photo looks better). If there is a leader with great character, thats better yet. Trim the rest. I'd trim back the other trunk and make sure that I used a concave cutter anywhere where the calluses might contribute to reverse taper. Then I would wait and anywhere I was trying to increase trunk diameter, I would clip and grow leaving branch collars. Anywhere I was trying to reduce diameter (in order to prevent reverse taper) I would use concave cutters and remove collars. Clip/grow...clip/grow... Then if you wanted the max height at 8-10 inches I'd grow the base to 4-5 inches (sumo). This would be faster in the ground but more controlled in a growing flat or pot. Then the next trunk sections. After that it's a matter of growing branches and "walah".....instant bonsai (3-5 growing seasons at minimum).

So that's my take, after three pints (and a little practical experience). Now we can let Al take over....more experience, less beer theory? Anyone? Help the poor guy out...spring is knockin in Texas
 
Top Bottom