Superthrive - it Works -myth

[Anonymous User]

Finally, a subject Mr. Heath is insightful about, rabbits.

Your jealously is rather sickening. But then again, if I knew as little as you do after (as you claim) being in bonsai since you were nine, I'd certainly try and knock individuals such as myself that only have had five years experience, especially when they consistently make you look like an idiot.

Hold on to your seats. The best orchid grower in the SouthEast United States, maybe the Country uses Superthrive. I have used it on orchids and the plant showed definite effects from the use shown in the blooms. If you over do it, The Vanda flowers in this case, would show it in a negative way. Their cell tissue would overgrow and the flower would cripple. There is some stimulation effect to some plants....how and why I have no clue but I have seen the results.
Go to http://www.rforchids.com then go to how to grow and look for fertilizer treatments.

You're showing your incredible gullibility and lack of knowledge once again. The evidence that superthrive or other such B-1 snake oils, has no positive effect on plants is overwhelming. There are no controlled, professional studies, that I have seen, that say otherwise.

Your link goes to a rather simple web page, which contains no scientific studies at all, instead they just list what they use at their commercial nursery. Here is the section you used as support for superthrive:

"At our nursery we use Peter's® 20-20-20 (All Purpose)® fertilizer weekly during the growing season. Inside the greenhouse, under a controlled environment, the concentration we use is the standard recommended one of 1 teaspoon per gallon. During the winter, i.e. non-growing season, we apply the same proportions every two weeks rather than weekly. In addition, at every third feeding we substitute Peter's® 10-30-20 (Bloom Booster)®. This substitution applies to plants in all seasons of the year. Further, once a month we add 1/4 teaspoon of SUPERthrive®, a concentrated vitamin and hormone solution for plants, to each gallon of fertilizer solution. "

There is no mention on what they think superthrive does, no mention as to why they use it, and no mention of any results obtained. In short, the link you provided offers absolutely nothing to support the use of superthrive. Based on real studies and information from professional horticulturists, it is safe to say they would see no difference at all if they stopped using the superthrive.

Your source falls right in line with everything else you have offered on any subject so far, at least you're consistent.

Will

 

[Asus101]

Finally, a subject Mr. Heath is insightful about, rabbits.

Wiki is a wonderful place....

 

[king kong]

How does it feel Mr Heath....to lay an egg? lol's

 

[Anonymous User]

Wiki is a wonderful place....

Yes it is, in all its forms as well.

How does it feel Mr Heath....to lay an egg? lol's

Typical response from you, when your small intelligence fails, you resort to pre-school level insults and taunts.




Will

 

[Asus101]

Typical response from you, when your small intelligence fails, you resort to pre-school level insults and taunts.

Will

I am to gather more upper class insults and personal attacks are ok?
You really know how to make friends, its good to see you getting along with others.

 

[greerhw]

Bottom line, does it matter if it works or not. I have a koi pond and throw a bunch of crap in it that more than likely is snake oil, koi people argue the effectiveness of these products on koi boards just like this thread with the same results. If you have the 12 bucks to spend and your trees are healthy, what the hell does it matter what someone else thinks. If you use it and your trees are dying, quit using it until you find what's killing them, it could be YOU. These theads are never anything but places to vent and show you know how to google or read. You can do your own test with two seedlings and do nothing but water them and one will do better than the other. If you do the same test and happen to use Superthrive on the healthy seedling, your going to be lifelong user and proclaim Superthrive is the best product to get your trees to grow. If you happen to use Superthrive on the less healthy seeding, the reverse will happen and you will proclaim Superthrive is a waste of money. I prefer to do what works for me through my own experience or the experience of friends that have been doing bonsai a lot longer than I have. The results of Phd's doing tests on tomatoes doesn't do much for me, I don't grow my own tomatoes. Doing the proper tests on JBPs would take years and years and frankly I don't have the patience for that little venture. I have a bottle of Superthrive and if I think about it I will use it from time to time, haven't killed any trees from it's use that I know of, nor have they grown like Jack's beanstalk.
Harry

 

[tombeur]

Bottom line, does it matter if it works or not. I have a koi pond and throw a bunch of crap in it that more than likely is snake oil, koi people argue the effectiveness of these products on koi boards just like this thread with the same results. If you have the 12 bucks to spend and your trees are healthy, what the hell does it matter what someone else thinks. If you use it and your trees are dying, quit using it until you find what's killing them, it could be YOU. These theads are never anything but places to vent and show you know how to google or read. You can do your own test with two seedlings and do nothing but water them and one will do better than the other. If you do the same test and happen to use Superthrive on the healthy seedling, your going to be lifelong user and proclaim Superthrive is the best product to get your trees to grow. If you happen to use Superthrive on the less healthy seeding, the reverse will happen and you will proclaim Superthrive is a waste of money. I prefer to do what works for me through my own experience or the experience of friends that have been doing bonsai a lot longer than I have. The results of Phd's doing tests on tomatoes doesn't do much for me, I don't grow my own tomatoes. Doing the proper tests on JBPs would take years and years and frankly I don't have the patience for that little venture. I have a bottle of Superthrive and if I think about it I will use it from time to time, haven't killed any trees from it's use that I know of, nor have they grown like Jack's beanstalk.
Harry

IMHO Harry is exactly right.

Cheers,

Steve

 

[king kong]

Bottom line, does it matter if it works or not. ..................

You darn right it matters





I have a koi pond and throw a bunch of crap in it that more than likely is snake oil, koi people argue the effectiveness of these products on koi boards just like this thread with the same results. If you have the 12 bucks to spend and your trees are healthy, what the hell does it matter what someone else thinks.
........................................
That is how we learn...observe and take notes...seeing is believing If you use it and your trees are dying, quit using it until you find what's killing them, it could be YOU. These theads are never anything but places to vent and show you know how to google or read.
...................................
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. I show the country's premiere Vanda grower and hybridizer and get a load of mung in return. It's is kind of sad in a way.



Here is some super thrive victims that won top honors in the last show grown by Mr. Robert Fuchs.

 

[milehigh_7]

Bottom line, does it matter if it works or not. I have a koi pond and throw a bunch of crap in it that more than likely is snake oil, koi people argue the effectiveness of these products on koi boards just like this thread with the same results. If you have the 12 bucks to spend and your trees are healthy, what the hell does it matter what someone else thinks. If you use it and your trees are dying, quit using it until you find what's killing them, it could be YOU. These theads are never anything but places to vent and show you know how to google or read. You can do your own test with two seedlings and do nothing but water them and one will do better than the other. If you do the same test and happen to use Superthrive on the healthy seedling, your going to be lifelong user and proclaim Superthrive is the best product to get your trees to grow. If you happen to use Superthrive on the less healthy seeding, the reverse will happen and you will proclaim Superthrive is a waste of money. I prefer to do what works for me through my own experience or the experience of friends that have been doing bonsai a lot longer than I have. The results of Phd's doing tests on tomatoes doesn't do much for me, I don't grow my own tomatoes. Doing the proper tests on JBPs would take years and years and frankly I don't have the patience for that little venture. I have a bottle of Superthrive and if I think about it I will use it from time to time, haven't killed any trees from it's use that I know of, nor have they grown like Jack's beanstalk.
Harry

Common sense Harry style!

 

[greerhw]

Bottom line, does it matter if it works or not. ..................

You darn right it matters





I have a koi pond and throw a bunch of crap in it that more than likely is snake oil, koi people argue the effectiveness of these products on koi boards just like this thread with the same results. If you have the 12 bucks to spend and your trees are healthy, what the hell does it matter what someone else thinks.
........................................
That is how we learn...observe and take notes...seeing is believing If you use it and your trees are dying, quit using it until you find what's killing them, it could be YOU. These theads are never anything but places to vent and show you know how to google or read.
...................................
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. I show the country's premiere Vanda grower and hybridizer and get a load of mung in return. It's is kind of sad in a way.



Here is some super thrive victims that won top honors in the last show grown by Mr. Robert Fuchs.

1. Why does it matter ?
2. Those aren't trees, they're flowers. probably used foliar feeding to boot.

Harry

 

[Dale Cochoy]

Have you guys seen the back outside cover of the latest 'Bonsai Focus'?

D.

 

[greerhw]

No, but you now have my attention, what is it ?

Harry

 

[king kong]

1. Why does it matter ?
2. Those aren't trees, they're flowers. probably used foliar feeding to boot.

Harry

They are plants Harry. Orchids, roses, black pine, carrots and maples all process food from sun light in a common way.

 

[greerhw]

They are plants Harry. Orchids, roses, black pine, carrots and maples all process food from sun light in a common way.

I made my point and you made yours, no point in arguing, neither one of us is going to change our minds anyway, we're both hardheaded and theres no point in getting surly over ego. If you think your right, it doesn't bother me.

Harry

 

[Anonymous User]

Harry,

It matters only because of the vast number of self proclaimed experts endorsing the use of this snake oil to newbies who want to know how to save their dying bonsai, or to better what they do have. These experts usually are just repeating what they have heard others say without any personal experience at all and whom haven't even taken the effort to do any research at all on the very thing they are telling others to use.

These experts claim personal experience that contradicts actual controlled studies and research, when in fact the truth with this product is that, except in rare cases, simple fertilizer will do just as much, most likely more, than using it.

When questioned about the product, these experts usually use something they heard, or another that is using it, as if this is in anyway valid infoprmation. In example, "Well so and so uses it on award winning orchids...." which has absolutely nothing at all to do with bonssai and in no way supports any premise.

Here's the cold hard truth...there are no magic shortcuts, no miracle plant foods, no golden techniques that will create great bonsai or keep them thriving. There is only good old fashioned common sense, dedication, and hard work, mixed with a touch of talent. Ask the real experts about fertilizer, most will tell you they use whatever is on sale. dig into their soil mix and you will find they use what is avaiable to them and is inexpensive, look at their tools, you will not find gold plated shears or cutters blessed by the pope, you'll find solid, sturdy tools that can be sharpened.

Why anyone would start using something based only on another persons word without research and verifying the information is something I'll never understand. Why they would then recommend it, is so far removed from my mind set that I can't understand it. Then again, without people like this, snake oils such as superthrive would never get off the ground at all, full page ads or not.

Don't take my word for it, please....just google B-1, thiamine, or superthrive along with the words myth, hoax, scam and enough will come up to convince you.



Will

 

[greerhw]

Harry,

It matters only because of the vast number of self proclaimed experts endorsing the use of this snake oil to newbies who want to know how to save their dying bonsai, or to better what they do have. These experts usually are just repeating what they have heard others say without any personal experience at all and whom haven't even taken the effort to do any research at all on the very thing they are telling others to use.

These experts claim personal experience that contradicts actual controlled studies and research, when in fact the truth with this product is that, except in rare cases, simple fertilizer will do just as much, most likely more, than using it.

When questioned about the product, these experts usually use something they heard, or another that is using it, as if this is in anyway valid infoprmation. In example, "Well so and so uses it on award winning orchids...." which has absolutely nothing at all to do with bonssai and in no way supports any premise.

Here's the cold hard truth...there are no magic shortcuts, no miracle plant foods, no golden techniques that will create great bonsai or keep them thriving. There is only good old fashioned common sense, dedication, and hard work, mixed with a touch of talent. Ask the real experts about fertilizer, most will tell you they use whatever is on sale. dig into their soil mix and you will find they use what is avaiable to them and is inexpensive, look at their tools, you will not find gold plated shears or cutters blessed by the pope, you'll find solid, sturdy tools that can be sharpened.

Why anyone would start using something based only on another persons word without research and verifying the information is something I'll never understand. Why they would then recommend it, is so far removed from my mind set that I can't understand it. Then again, without people like this, snake oils such as superthrive would never get off the ground at all, full page ads or not.

Don't take my word for it, please....just google B-1, thiamine, or superthrive along with the words myth, hoax, scam and enough will come up to convince you.



Will

I understand your point Will, but you can also do the same with just google superthrive benefits. just testamony of words from people with agendas. As far as newbies are concerned, some people just have to learn the hard way. I don't want to get in a discussion about Religion, but ask a Christian if prayer works and you will get a resounding YES, ask an athiest the same question and your will get a resounding NO and both will offer proof they are right. I will just stick with my own experience on both.

Harry

 

[Anonymous User]

I understand your point Will, but you can also do the same with just google superthrive benefits. just testamony of words from people with agendas.

The difference being there is actual published research from professionals stating it has little, if any benefit....as opposed to " words from people with agendas."


You can google statements that proclaim the world is flat and seaweed can cure cancer, the trick is to find documented, verifiable evidence to support these claims. Have you ever read the label on superthrive? No solid claims, just inflated nothingness.....I'll tell you this, if I had a product that only did half of what some claim superthrive does, I'd post actual research to verify it, give free samples to every scientist in the country, sell it to third world countries to feed the starving masses with, and retire a billionaire in about a year.

In fact, this whole superthrive mania reminds me of another story..... http://knowledgeofbonsai.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=79



Will

 

[greerhw]

The difference being there is actual published research from professionals stating it has little, if any benefit....as opposed to " words from people with agendas."


You can google statements that proclaim the world is flat and seaweed can cure cancer, the trick is to find documented, verifiable evidence to support these claims. Have you ever read the label on superthrive? No solid claims, just inflated nothingness.....I'll tell you this, if I had a product that only did half of what some claim superthrive does, I'd post actual research to verify it, give free samples to every scientist in the country, sell it to third world countries to feed the starving masses with, and retire a billionaire in about a year.

In fact, this whole superthrive mania reminds me of another story..... http://knowledgeofbonsai.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=79



Will

Gosh Will, do you believe everything you read on the internet. Would it be believeable if I write a paper on the benefits of Superthrive using a fancy university or company letterhead I borrowed from the internet and listed my credentials, along with my years of research and results and you had never met me and didn't know me from a bale of hay. I thought you much smarter than that.

Harry

 

[king kong]

It's called anal-retentive.

 

[Anonymous User]

Gosh Will, do you believe everything you read on the internet. Would it be believeable if I write a paper on the benefits of Superthrive using a fancy university or company letterhead I borrowed from the internet and listed my credentials, along with my years of research and results and you had never met me and didn't know me from a bale of hay. I thought you much smarter than that.

Harry

Harry, if you would like to offer up any evidence that the sources I cited used borrowed letterheads or otherwise faked their credentials, I'd be happy to replace them, as well as reevaluate my conclusions.

Until such time, you're darn tooting I'll base my own practices and advice on solid, verifiable fact and call attention to those opinions which are not. For example, you are free to say waving an old boot over a bonsai is the best way to feed it, that is your right....and I have the right to state that there is no evidence, no research, no studies, and no sources that confirm this practice and I have the right to point out any solid, verifiable studies that refute the practice. At that point, you have the right to post evidence that supports your claim, admit that the practice has no foundation, or just beat around the bush to dilute the fact that the practice has no provable effect at all.

We would all be better off if we could discuss such issues intelligently, I know that actual research is hard to refute, but maybe sometimes we need to face the facts of a matter and let the egos go, wrong, right, unresolved, discussions such as this are valuable. If discussions such as this only cause a few people to do their own research and thinking, instead of blindly accepting anything said by the "forum experts" then it is successful.

In Short, don't take my word for it, your word, Walter's word, or anyones word alone, research, read, ask, experiment and verify. You'll only become a better bonsaist for it.

It's called anal-retentive.

Another valuable addition to the discussion! Someday you'll have to really shock me and add something worth reading.....


Will