Superthrive on pines
- Thread starter Davids
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BonsaiDTLA
Shohin
Hi Davids. Superthrive has been previously discussed, you can click here to see some past relevant threads
Wires_Guy_wires
Imperial Masterpiece
The only thing I've read (and I'm not a 100% sure) about superthrive being different than other nutrient mixtures is that it contains (myo-)inositol. A sugar-like compound that helps plants deal with stress. This compound has scientifically proven benefits and it's added in laboratory plant media a lot for that same reason.
Most nutrients can be myc killers if they are applied too vigorously. Foliar applications, when done right, shouldn't affect soil fungi a whole lot.
It's not a miracle cure though. Inositol as a separate compound is pretty cheap, probably a bit more expensive than regular sugar. If you plan on using it, make sure you do a bit of research before applying it to anything. When plants get too much carbohydrates for free, in general they tend to drop their photosynthetic productivity and they produce fewer roots.
Most nutrients can be myc killers if they are applied too vigorously. Foliar applications, when done right, shouldn't affect soil fungi a whole lot.
It's not a miracle cure though. Inositol as a separate compound is pretty cheap, probably a bit more expensive than regular sugar. If you plan on using it, make sure you do a bit of research before applying it to anything. When plants get too much carbohydrates for free, in general they tend to drop their photosynthetic productivity and they produce fewer roots.
Davids
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I've stressed my Pinus sylvestris a bit too much. This was a few weeks ago. What van I do to help? I spray (When it's not raining) with HB 101 solution.
Bnana
Chumono
The idea that "chemical fertilizers" kill mycorrhiza has started to live it's own life in the bonsai world.
High concentrations of nutrients (or other salts) can harm the fungi. But if you use them as intended this won't play a role.
If trees have a shortage of nutrients they produce more exudates and stimulate mycorrhizal growth. If there's an abundance of nutrients they'll do this less. Whether these nutrients come from a bottle or were released from organic fertilizer doesn't matter. Starving your yes it's however not a good idea
Mycorrhizal fungi can help release nutrients from recalcitrant compounds in the soil but this hardly plays a role in bonsai.
High concentrations of nutrients (or other salts) can harm the fungi. But if you use them as intended this won't play a role.
If trees have a shortage of nutrients they produce more exudates and stimulate mycorrhizal growth. If there's an abundance of nutrients they'll do this less. Whether these nutrients come from a bottle or were released from organic fertilizer doesn't matter. Starving your yes it's however not a good idea
Mycorrhizal fungi can help release nutrients from recalcitrant compounds in the soil but this hardly plays a role in bonsai.
Probably the best thing is to leave it alone! Give it full sun, water as needed.
You didn’t say how you stressed it, but messing with it continuously will only stress it more.
Potawatomi13
Imperial Masterpiece
Have you read Michael Hegedorns Bonsai Heresies yet? Personally use HB 101 if needing to give boost to tree or particular limb wanting to save or strengthen. Have personal jug of 1/2 strength fertilizer and HB 101 for spraying foliage. If memory serves seems Michael supports foliar feeding and says jury is still out on Superthrive and similar boosters. Personal results seem to support it
.Wires_Guy_wires
Imperial Masterpiece
Agreed that for nutrient acquisition, myc is overrated. For drought stress response, in-house antibiotic and hormone production and (bio-)protective capabilities, I'm a huge fan.
A good layer of mycelium also helps to keep my soil in place.
cmeg1
Imperial Masterpiece
Myco’s play a huge role in the assimilation of phospherous.......if the source of phospherous is organic like rock phosphate.Highly reccomended to add myco’s for sure if going organic in the bonsai media.Very important actually
If using fertilizer salts with highly available phospherous types like the mono ammonium phosphate or what have you,then it has been discovered that the roots will actually expell the myco fungi for a pathogen!!!
In either case it has also been discovered that beneficial microbes are fantastic in both organic and salt based nutrient regimes........especially when the nitrogen is lowered and the potassium raised.This way the plants slow in growth while the microbes surivive with the root exudates and produce..... amino based? NPK .
Then photosynthesis can make high brix leaves and have a rest instead of being taxed all the time to assimilate nitrogen.........nitrogen assimilation can deplete 30% the energy of photosynthesis otherwise.
Microbes can make NPK directly at the root!!!
Very essential in hydroponics..
If using fertilizer salts with highly available phospherous types like the mono ammonium phosphate or what have you,then it has been discovered that the roots will actually expell the myco fungi for a pathogen!!!
In either case it has also been discovered that beneficial microbes are fantastic in both organic and salt based nutrient regimes........especially when the nitrogen is lowered and the potassium raised.This way the plants slow in growth while the microbes surivive with the root exudates and produce..... amino based? NPK .
Then photosynthesis can make high brix leaves and have a rest instead of being taxed all the time to assimilate nitrogen.........nitrogen assimilation can deplete 30% the energy of photosynthesis otherwise.
Microbes can make NPK directly at the root!!!
Very essential in hydroponics..
Davids
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I have repotted it and wired it with 6mm wire to bent it extreme.
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Bnana
Chumono
Ectomycorrhizal fungi form a sock around the roots of trees, that indeed helps trees as it protects them against pathogens. But that is independent of fertilizer use, you won't kill that by fertilizing.
Trees don't expell mycorrhizal fungi for the simple fact that they have ectomycorrhizae and not arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi (of course there are exceptions, especially among tropical trees). The AMF grow in the roots but that's a completely different group of fungi. Even there the expelling of mycorrhizal fungi is very limited. Ectomycorrhizal fungi are around the roots and the tree can't expell it.
It is true that mycorrhiza (especially AMF, those that are not in your tree) help to free P. If you fertilize normally that doesn't play a role in bonsai, I've never heard of anyone fertilizing bonsai with rock phosphate.
Micro-organisms can make aminoacids from nitrate and ammonia (the ectomycorrhizal fungi trees have are very good in this). The energy they use for this comes primarily from the root exudates, so from the plant. Micro-organisms don't work for free.
Adding mycorrhiza as inocula is not necessary. They will come as spores into your pots and the commercial inocula are a bad match in 99% of the cases. If you want to inoculate, take some soil from a related species and add it to your pot.
Trees don't expell mycorrhizal fungi for the simple fact that they have ectomycorrhizae and not arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi (of course there are exceptions, especially among tropical trees). The AMF grow in the roots but that's a completely different group of fungi. Even there the expelling of mycorrhizal fungi is very limited. Ectomycorrhizal fungi are around the roots and the tree can't expell it.
It is true that mycorrhiza (especially AMF, those that are not in your tree) help to free P. If you fertilize normally that doesn't play a role in bonsai, I've never heard of anyone fertilizing bonsai with rock phosphate.
Micro-organisms can make aminoacids from nitrate and ammonia (the ectomycorrhizal fungi trees have are very good in this). The energy they use for this comes primarily from the root exudates, so from the plant. Micro-organisms don't work for free.
Adding mycorrhiza as inocula is not necessary. They will come as spores into your pots and the commercial inocula are a bad match in 99% of the cases. If you want to inoculate, take some soil from a related species and add it to your pot.
If that trunk was straight before you wired it, then yes, i’d say you stressed it! Lol!!!
It looks like you did a good job! My objection is you should have done one or the other... that is, either wire or repot. Not both at the same time. But, what’s done is done...
Now, leave it alone, and see if it survives!
If anything, you might want to mist the foliage from time to time. Wiring can create micro-tears in living cells in the xylem and phloem, and transport of water and sugars can get interrupted. Misting can help until the tree repairs itself.
Yes, give it sun, 24 hours a day.
Sekibonsai
Shohin
except it is present in the undiluted concentration at levels of absolutely no botanical use
roberthu
Chumono
I've got this growing lamp for the nights
That’s a lot of fleights
Bnana
Chumono
Is there a decent study on Superthrive and plant performance? That should be easy to test in an experimental setting but I can't find much that's relevant in Google Scholar.
