Sweating techinque some questions

boschetaru

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Hello everyone,
I have few questions after i let you know some informations about my problem.
I have collected a Hawthorn, with a few roots, i have planted it in some good drainage soil and after i put it in a black bag and misted daily( i saw a video on youtube abt it on Tony Tickle ).
After 3 weeks, less , like 2 weeks and a half buds started to pop up from the trunk( in the upper part and middle).Also, at the top, were i made the cut, it had some sort of white thing, like a calus or smth ,like it wants to cover the cut.
Now my questions are:
- when do i remove the bag?
-is the mold a big problem( some minor mold apears but after i let the bag open for 1 h it goes away and comes back in 2 days)
-if i remove the bag, should i put it in a white bag?
- how much should it stay in the white bag?

Will post some pictures in a while.
Thank you
 

Woocash

Chumono
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That white stuff at the top looks like the sap when you put a green log on a fire. How hot has it been getting in the bag? TT says that he removes trees from the bag when he gets 5cm of growth.
 

boschetaru

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Not too hot this days.
The white staff, i google it and it looks like the tree is healing there where the cut was done.I dont know if it is true or not.
So i should keep it in the bag until the shoots are 5 cm?
What will happen if the mold wont dissspear, im really concerned abt it.
Thx
 

Woocash

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To be honest, I only sweated for the first time this year but a couple of hawthorn I took out with 5cm extensions, a couple after most of the buds had broken. At the very least you should wait for most of the buds to leaf out. I’ve seen no reference to putting in a clear bag after. Mine have been fine out of the bag.

Just do what you do open the bag a bit for a while to let air in every couple of days. Some people spray a weak peroxide (3% or so I think) in the bag to kill mould, but I had it on a couple of mine and it soon disappears after they are removed from the bag.

Hawthorn wont callous over very easily so that is unlikely to be a wound healing. Probably just excess sap rising. Is it hard or soft to touch?
 

boschetaru

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I touched it, and its hard.
Is it a problem if its excess sap?
I will let the bag open for a couple of hours and then bag it up again.
Thank you
 

Shibui

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The white stuff in a ring around the cut appears to be callus. That's the cambium trying to heal itself and that's a really good sign. Callus is where new shoots or roots will grow. I would bet on a whole ring of new shoots growing from that white stuff in a few weeks.
I have not tried this sweating but I think it would be best to leave the tree in the bag for as long as possible. At least until there are good shoots growing and then probably some. The problem with taking it out is that the roots may not be active yet so any new shoots can dehydrate if the air around them is not humid.
 

boschetaru

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Thank you for the responses, i will leave it in the bag for as long as it takes then.
Actually, you cant see in the pics , there are many buds under that white callus, in a circular area.
When i will open the bag again i will put some pics again.
Again, thank you alll
 

bluecat

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If it helps, the photos are of the Hawthorne I collected back in February/March. I also bagged it after watching Tony Tickle's video and a 2-4 weeks later it had started to bud out with strong pale green shoots. The growth is now about double the size in places so I'll be taking another look this weekend and looking to open the bag up to the light and then remove the bag completely once the growth has hardened off (gone a darker green).

FWIW - It's been stored at my parent's house so they've been watering it daily with the hose, rather than misting and it's worked okay.
 

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sorce

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:cool::cool::cool:
So you are against this techique?
Me?
Thanks for asking!

You make it look righteous!

All my thoughts...

This tree isn't worth so much effort. (I don't believe it) Practice is everything.

So much "try" in bonsai, means hundreds or thousands of years of the same level of "try", not worth it when better things can be had with no "try" at all. (Speaking to a level of vigour, where of 100 trees, one is vigorous enough to not "try", genetics...chance?)

Looking back up, I didn't realize that bluecat had the green Growth.

Um....2 posts I wouldn't put so much effort into!

Why always Hawthorne? (Rhetorical)

Sorce
 
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Hijacking the thread to ask a different question: why does the bag have to be black? I'd think a clear bag would act as a mini greenhouse.
 

boschetaru

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Me?
Thanks for asking!

You make it look righteous!

All my thoughts...

This tree isn't worth so much effort. (I don't believe it) Practice is everything.

So much "try" in bonsai, means hundreds or thousands of years of the same level of "try", not worth it when better things can be had with no "try" at all. (Speaking to a level of vigour, where of 100 trees, one is vigorous enough to not "try", genetics...chance?)

Looking back up, I didn't realize that bluecat had the green Growth.

Um....2 posts I wouldn't put so much effort into!

Why always Hawthorne? (Rhetorical)

Sorce
Well,
I come here to ask for advices not lecture, i get that enough from my wife.
I really dont care if anyone likes it, i have to like it as i saw smth in it and i wanna do it.
I agree, practice is everything.
Now if u have some advice please share it.
Thank you.
 

boschetaru

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Hijacking the thread to ask a different question: why does the bag have to be black? I'd think a clear bag would act as a mini greenhouse.
From what i saw on the video, it has to be black (but very thin so some light can come in) because this promote budding and root growth.
I guess you can put a white bag after u have some growth to prevent the shock from black to outside.
 

penumbra

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It was an old nursery trade trick to pot bare root shrubs like roses and cover them with clear plastic until buds popped. I remember doing this about 45 years ago at a nursery I worked at in Richmond.
 

boschetaru

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It was an old nursery trade trick to pot bare root shrubs like roses and cover them with clear plastic until buds popped. I remember doing this about 45 years ago at a nursery I worked at in Richmond.
I am a bit confused:) they did it to trick ppl? like roses were rooted?
 

penumbra

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I am a bit confused:) they did it to trick ppl? like roses were rooted?
No, they did it to encoiurage new growth on a root system that was slightly inadequate at potting time. At the time I did not understand it but they did it year after year as they had done it for decades at least.
 

boschetaru

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No, they did it to encoiurage new growth on a root system that was slightly inadequate at potting time. At the time I did not understand it but they did it year after year as they had done it for decades at least.
Ok, i understand now.
Well this was my problem also, bc it was collected not quite in the right time, and i want to do my best to save it.That is why i choose this sweating technique( never did it before).
Tnx for sharing
 

bluecat

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From Tony and Harry's advice they do it on ALL their Hawthorne's and similar deciduous trees to improve the collection rate.
I think the humidity and heat trick the tree into thinking a it's underground in summer so it needs to pop new buds to find light. HHarrington mentioned it that, similar to forcing rhubarb, you can leave the bag open to encourage budding on the trunk rather than new suckers.

Hawthorne's are beautiful trees, particularly in spring so, I hope yours comes through.

Finally (at last I hear you say!), Trial and error is the basis of all scientific/artistic/human progress. Without it we wouldn't have bonsai at all.
 
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