Table heights and stand heights, how would you do it?

[Hartinez]

What are the average table heights at bonsai shows? And based on that height do you prefer a taller display table/stand or something shorter? Specifically if you were to display a forest, how would you do it? Would you leave it low on a Jita or a short stand? Does the table height dictate that response or is your display same regardless?

I know this is a bit of a broad question, but it seems that most tables you see at big bonsai shows are the standard table height of 30” or so. As a disclaimer, please know that I’ve never been to a big show before so my knowledge is limited and I’m going entirely off internet imagery. I would think that taller display stands would need to be taller to get the tree at proper viewing height, that is, based on table heights I see at bonsai shows.

Ive been ramping up my bonsai stand efforts lately and I’m looking for any and all insight in to artists, hobbyists and pros insights and thoughts on display stand heights, dimensions, and style. Ive got my preconceived ideas but id love some input.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I think our displays tend to be too low in the US...especially when many of our trees tend to be smaller.

Our local club uses the typical folding banquet tables, which are 30” high, and raises them with a PVC extension on each leg to get them up another 15” or so, making the table height around 45” tall. I believe Kathy Shaner has shared that idea with other clubs as well, it’s really simple and smart.

Short trees should get taller stands, big trees tend to get lower stands. In the end, it’s bes to have displays high enough that people don’t have to bend down too far to appreciate them.

If you are putting a 6” high stand on a 45” high table, you’re getting the tree up above waist level for most people, meaning they should get a good view if they can stand a couple feet back. Here are a couple shots of our 2019 show, with the tables raised.

 

[sorce]

It pays to have 2 stands of a bit different heights that'll work for the same tree, this way you can compensate some for the table height present.

That might just be a selling point.

You wanna trade some?

I'm trying to link up with some stand folks to take better pot pictures on em and guide people to the stand man, until I become, the stand man!

Sorce

 

[Hartinez]

I think our displays tend to be too low in the US...especially when many of our trees tend to be smaller.

Our local club uses the typical folding banquet tables, which are 30” high, and raises them with a PVC extension on each leg to get them up another 15” or so, making the table height around 45” tall. I believe Kathy Shaner has shared that idea with other clubs as well, it’s really simple and smart.

Short trees should get taller stands, big trees tend to get lower stands. In the end, it’s bes to have displays high enough that people don’t have to bend down too far to appreciate them.

If you are putting a 6” high stand on a 45” high table, you’re getting the tree up above waist level for most people, meaning they should get a good view if they can stand a couple feet back. Here are a couple shots of our 2019 show, with the tables raised.

Thanks for the response Brian, I was hoping you in particular would see the question. I like the Ida and look of the 45” table much better than the 30”. My local club also has the taller tables. Is the national show using taller tables as well? Ive never been so I don’t know and can’t quite tell from photos.

If I’m to continue to make stands for people to be interested in, I’m trying to get a generalized feel for what preferences are. I understand that every situation will be different, depending on the tree and show, but a bonsai artist may not trust me to build a stand for a tree if they don’t have examples to look at first. My trees are ok, but nowhere near the level I’d like to see displayed on stands I want to make.

Another more specific reason I was asking was in regards to a forest or group planting. I came across this burl at my exotic wood shops scrap bin, that looks strikingly similar to a mountain range. I split it in two and My though would be to put that at the base of a stand to invoke the sloping foothills of a mountain range. With a group of deciduous trees on top. for it to proportionately look right, I would need to make the stand around 5”-7”, but the overall length of this burl is 16” or so. Im trying to get a feel for wether that is too tall or not for a group planting or not. Most group plantings i see tend to be more grounded.


Color is another thing that has me asking questions. Most stands i see are dark. This makes sense to me on some level, but. Not entirely. It makes sense that your eye will focus more on the lighter part of the composition and making your stand darker highlights the tree not the stand. But what I don’t get Is why so much detail in some of the stands i see if the detail will be lost in a dark stain? Again, very general question, but when is too much detail in a stand too much? In terms of the above stand idea i have, I’d like for the mountain detail to invoke a feeling of a mountain range and the trees to put you on that mountain range. But is that too distracting?

So many silly questions i know! But this this just helps me think through my process and the direction i want to go with my own stand buillding.

 

[Hartinez]

It pays to have 2 stands of a bit different heights that'll work for the same tree, this way you can compensate some for the table height present.

That might just be a selling point.

You wanna trade some?

I'm trying to link up with some stand folks to take better pot pictures on em and guide people to the stand man, until I become, the stand man!

Sorce

Sorcety Sorcington! I wouldnt mind trading at some point! Let me get some more builds under me and I’d be down to chat. Always a fan of trading when time permits.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Most tables at the Nattys seemed to be standard height when I went in 2014...if I recall correctly. The stand I had built for my next entry is about 18” tall to get the relatively small pine up into the air a bit so it won’t be swallowed up by the monster trees that tend to show up there.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Light stands tend to be distracting for the reasons you already listed. There are definitely times when they’re appropriate...or more correctly, a well-chosen novelty. Just remember, the stand is a support role in the overall composition. So while you are making a stand and appreciating the details, the overall piece should not overtake the bonsai tree itself. That is a very tricky concept for stand builders and even potters. Darker stains may actually help you build the stand to have the more passive role in the composition...and yet, the details of the wood are still there for anyone who really wants to appreciate the stand. They just need to look in closer.

 

[Hartinez]

Most tables at the Nattys seemed to be standard height when I went in 2014...if I recall correctly. The stand I had built for my next entry is about 18” tall to get the relatively small pine up into the air a bit so it won’t be swallowed up by the monster trees that tend to show up there.

Oh wow! 18” is tall. But I’m sure it is an exceptional comp. I’d be interested in seeing a pic of the setup when it’s all together.

 

[Hartinez]

Light stands tend to be distracting for the reasons you already listed. There are definitely times when they’re appropriate...or more correctly, a well-chosen novelty. Just remember, the stand is a support role in the overall composition. So while you are making a stand and appreciating the details, the overall piece should not overtake the bonsai tree itself. That is a very tricky concept for stand builders and even potters. Darker stains may actually help you build the stand to have the more passive role in the composition...and yet, the details of the wood are still there for anyone who really wants to appreciate the stand. They just need to look in closer.

Makes sense. As a carpenter I’ve never been a huge fan of staining wood, rather I like to find the color desired through the wood color itself. Sadly that leaves very few woods available for me in regards to dark stands in bonsai!

thanks for all the insight. Much appreciated.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Oh wow! 18” is tall. But I’m sure it is an exceptional comp. I’d be interested in seeing a pic of the setup when it’s all together.

Me too

 

[Hartinez]

Me too

Oh no! Are you not going to be setup at the rescheduled show this year??

 

[sorce]

Sorcety Sorcington! I wouldnt mind trading at some point! Let me get some more builds under me and I’d be down to chat. Always a fan of trading when time permits.

I'm mostly interested in pairing interesting, different but "traditional", stands with pots that actually work well on em, in an effort to create something that wasn't there before.

Blaze new trails.

Make an aesthetic.

Sorce

 

[Hartinez]

On a side note @Brian Van Fleet , I’m visiting my mom in south Mississippi this June with my son. Was thinking if time permitted I’d try to make it to Birmingham. But I just mapped it out and 4.5hr drive may be a bit ambitious.

 

[Hartinez]

I'm mostly interested in pairing interesting, different but "traditional", stands with pots that actually work well on em, in an effort to create something that wasn't there before.

Blaze new trails.

Make an aesthetic.

Sorce

Yup. I’d like that too. I’ve been chatting with Mike Hennigan of red tail pottery about the same thing. Have you checked out his site at all? Really nice work he’s producing.

 

[sorce]

Yup. I’d like that too. I’ve been chatting with Mike Hennigan of red tail pottery about the same thing. Have you checked out his site at all? Really nice work he’s producing.

I believe I remember being impressed with the latest post here.

Have you seen this? Inspired by a tree here, perhaps it can move to stand inspiration. It seems your style is best suited to the project.



Then on to @kakejiku for an appropriate scroll.

This can be fun, if not exactly what we should be doing here!

Sorce

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Oh no! Are you not going to be setup at the rescheduled show this year??

My current plan is to take it there myself. The main tree has been at Bjorn’s for a couple months, and will be coming back to Bham this week. The second tree is just leafing out, and I haven’t started working on the accent yet...so it’s going to take a little time to pull together.

And yes, that’s a long drive but if the dates work out, you’re welcome to come by. Would be great to meet you. My wife’s family had homes in Pass Christian MS, from before Camille to after Katrina...nice area, but it’s a haul to Bham.

 

[Hartinez]

My current plan is to take it there myself. The main tree has been at Bjorn’s for a couple months, and will be coming back to Bham this week. The second tree is just leafing out, and I haven’t started working on the accent yet...so it’s going to take a little time to pull together.

And yes, that’s a long drive but if the dates work out, you’re welcome to come by. Would be great to meet you. My wife’s family had homes in Pass Christian MS, from before Camille to after Katrina...nice area, but it’s a haul to Bham.

My mom absolutely loves the south. Her hubby is from Nola and is about as southern a boy as you get. Can’t wait to see her, it’s been a while.

Would love to one of the years, make it happen. Always wanted to see that hawthorn of yours in person.

conversely, my mom is from Buffalo 2which is only an hour from Rochester! Maybe heading to the National show more frequently in he years to come also. An excuse to visit family on the same trip. More like, an excuse to go to the National show.

 

[kakejiku]

I believe I remember being impressed with the latest post here.

Have you seen this? Inspired by a tree here, perhaps it can move to stand inspiration. It seems your style is best suited to the project.

View attachment 362801

Then on to @kakejiku for an appropriate scroll.

This can be fun, if not exactly what we should be doing here!

Sorce

Sorce様へ

I do not want to hijack this thread with a topic that is controversial.
But I do want to discuss the dark tables in general.
Some have mentioned that light stands distract from the tree, but
is that the real reason Japanese use dark stands?
Or is it the fact that exotic hardwoods such as Rosewood and Ebony
were coveted and hard to get (historically)...therefore seen as the
highest standard of beauty, and then becoming the norm for use
in display.
It is the same for Jikusaki (the end rollers on the dowels of scrolls)
Rosewood and Ebony are very popular and now quite common.
Just a point to contemplate.

 

[Hartinez]

Sorce様へ

I do not want to hijack this thread with a topic that is controversial.
But I do want to discuss the dark tables in general.
Some have mentioned that light stands distract from the tree, but
is that the real reason Japanese use dark stands?
Or is it the fact that exotic hardwoods such as Rosewood and Ebony
were coveted and hard to get (historically)...therefore seen as the
highest standard of beauty, and then becoming the norm for use
in display.
It is the same for Jikusaki (the end rollers on the dowels of scrolls)
Rosewood and Ebony are very popular and now quite common.
Just a point to contemplate.

Please hi jack! That is awfully interesting and a point I wasn’t aware of.

 

[sorce]

I think there is a way to utilize lighter stands, but it would almost have to be an "all lighter stand" show, or something acknowledging the drastic differences moving from display to display.

I think this is why we haven't, and can't really accept light stands in a show, so this transfers to not owning many and then not many out there.

I think a show with stands going from lighter to darker and back again would be dope as hell.

Make that the challenge and place trees accordingly.

I like light stands, but I wouldn't want to stand out like that amongst others, too jarring to who I would want to be my viewer.

Sorce