Tall tree perspective

[ProfessorFarnsworth]

What perspective are you designing a tall tree from? Viewing from mid height or as if you are on the ground? Of course you want it all to look good from all angles but I feel like low middle to middle seems like the right level for getting any lines worked out. But maybe you are expecting someone to lower their perspective to match? I guess at that point distance from the tree matters too.

 

[Shogun610]

Japanese white pine in progress, it’s still in its native soil mix from the nursery..... Way I look at it for pines is developing a leader , developing pads and direction. And also imo if you wanna make Deadwood designs / cut it in half to be prepared for that if it’s a tall tree?

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I'm 5 ft 8 inches, I try to think of my minds eye being at the same height when I am designing a tall or a broad and wide tree. So that point, depending on scale, where my eyes would be normally, I try to see that point in the bonsai.

The trunk leaning slightly toward the viewer, imitates the feeling when we have to tilt our heads back to see the top of the tree. The taller the tree, the more noticable the tilt toward the viewer.

I very shallow and wide pot will help a tree feel more distant from the viewer, making a shorter tree seem taller. Same tree in the deep pot, that is not very wide, will feel like the viewer is closer to the tree and a tree the same height as the first example will feel shorter, because it seems closer.

So the shape of the pot plays into the perception of the height of the tree.

 

[ProfessorFarnsworth]

I'm 5 ft 8 inches, I try to think of my minds eye being at the same height when I am designing a tall or a broad and wide tree. So that point, depending on scale, where my eyes would be normally, I try to see that point in the bonsai.

The trunk leaning slightly toward the viewer, imitates the feeling when we have to tilt our heads back to see the top of the tree. The taller the tree, the more noticable the tilt toward the viewer.

I very shallow and wide pot will help a tree feel more distant from the viewer, making a shorter tree seem taller. Same tree in the deep pot, that is not very wide, will feel like the viewer is closer to the tree and a tree the same height as the first example will feel shorter, because it seems closer.

So the shape of the pot plays into the perception of the height of the tree.

I had a feeling when you are doing a taller tree you would try to imitate standing in front of a tall tree at person height.
I'll be going for a wide and somewhat deep pot first time (late springish), since it's a cedar and I'll be taking out some height in the roots, I'd like to not take much width out of the roots. It's large enough to get started styling so I'd rather make the first jump to a pot instead of a pond basket or something. But a generous sized pot for a couple years to keep the nursery repot gentler.

 

[leatherback]

Viewing from mid height or as if you are on the ground?

Normally I go for just above pot level when putting things together.
I assume in displays the tree will be ~3ft above the ground, but I also know I go on my hunches there to truely see the tree.

 

[Woocash]

Normally I go for just above pot level when putting things together.
I assume in displays the tree will be ~3ft above the ground, but I also know I go on my hunches there to truely see the tree.

Seems silly. I’ve only been to one show, but I did think having to stoop to view the trees properly defeats the point of the display. If I ever got to a show my trees would be on a minimum foot high plinth.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

What perspective are you designing a tall tree from? Viewing from mid height or as if you are on the ground? Of course you want it all to look good from all angles but I feel like low middle to middle seems like the right level for getting any lines worked out. But maybe you are expecting someone to lower their perspective to match? I guess at that point distance from the tree matters too.

As if you are on the ground. That doesn't mean that your eye is at soil level on the bonsai pot, but it is important that you are looking up, and not down, at the tree canopy. A taller tree would best be displayed so that your eye is lower on the trunk than a spreading, heavy tree. Obvious exceptions to this rule are cascade and semi-cascade trees.

 

[ProfessorFarnsworth]

As if you are on the ground. That doesn't mean that your eye is at soil level on the bonsai pot, but it is important that you are looking up, and not down, at the tree canopy. A taller tree would best be displayed so that your eye is lower on the trunk than a spreading, heavy tree. Obvious exceptions to this rule are cascade and semi-cascade trees.

Awesome thanks everyone! I was doing some planning and realized I had no idea where to view from on tree that can't be viewed from an obvious straight on angle like smaller trees.

 

[Forsoothe!]

Typical display tables in shows are 40 to 42" high, and it is up to the individual to provide a stand which places their tree at the intended height vis-a-vis the viewer. Taller trees in nature have more bare trunk on the lower sections.

 

[sorce]

Aye. It depends where you will display it mostly, or for awards if that's your goal.

Sorce

 

[plant_dr]

What kind of tree? What style is it in, etc.?

 

[ProfessorFarnsworth]

What kind of tree? What style is it in, etc.?

The one I'm currently trying to come up with a strategy on is a blue atlas cedar that I have a post about but I also have a bald cypress that I'll be working pretty tall. I'm not 100% the styling yet on my atlas but it has a nice dead top for a Jin so I got it cheap. I seem to have crossed a size line where the aluminum wire just won't cut it anymore so I'm ordering some copper. I don't want to do much pruning or anything till it survives repotting from the nursery pot. I'm considering either old layered flat pads under the jin. Or fluffier younger larger pads.

 

[ProfessorFarnsworth]

Aye. It depends where you will display it mostly, or for awards if that's your goal.

Sorce

I'm not really planning to enter it into any contests. I'm still pretty new so it seems unlikely it would get to that level. If it did though I would hate to find out I made it impossible by making a mistake on step 1 and design everything from a high angle.

 

[PA_Penjing]

Leo's answer is exactly what I used to do when building a tree. Currently I just design the whole thing in a 3D "naturalistic" way with no foreshortening, but that doesn't answer your question. I remember hearing trees were meant to be viewed at eye level but since I don't display mine nearly that high I stopped shooting for that subtle perspective. I like your tree btw, I love the "tall tree" style

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I do my design work with my eyes just a few inches above the plane that is level with the rim of the pot.

Ideal display height will be somewhere around that level.

Conventions for North American shows puts trees much too low to enjoy the designs properly.

In a traditional Tokonoma display, in Japan, one would have removed their shows before entering the home or pavilion, and would kneel to be able to observe the tree.

Being circumferentially giften, this fat guy is not kneeling for anything or any person, I'll never get up again. Tall tables and low stools are a help.

 

[Adair M]

I do my design work with my eyes just a few inches above the plane that is level with the rim of the pot.

Ideal display height will be somewhere around that level.

Conventions for North American shows puts trees much too low to enjoy the designs properly.

In a traditional Tokonoma display, in Japan, one would have removed their shows before entering the home or pavilion, and would kneel to be able to observe the tree.

Being circumferentially giften, this fat guy is not kneeling for anything or any person, I'll never get up again. Tall tables and low stools are a help.

Hmmm... I tend to style based upon each tree’s best viewpoint of the trunk. With a tall tree, @leo in NE Illinois, I suspect that would be higher than “a few inches above the rim”.

That said, however, when I am working the pads of the branches, I style each pad at eye level. The tufts of foliage at the rear and center of the pad tend to be set higher than the foliage in the front. This creates an illusion of depth, and helps make the small tree “look like a big tree”.

So, a combination of a height adjustable chair and turntable make it easy to adjust the tree’s height as I’m working it.

And, of course, once each pad is finished, I step back and look at it from the distance it would be viewed at a show, and make adjustments as necessary.