Teaching bonsai to someone who just won't learn

[Joe Dupre']

I have a sticky situation with a couple of friends that want to "do" bonsai but really don't want to take the time to learn. They ask me questions that would take an hour to explain, but they seem to want the "1 minute answer". : One of them wants to grow a 1" diameter elm.......that I gave them, I might add...... into a 2 and 1/2" diameter trunk while still in the nursery container. They want this in a hurry. I say "Well, the fastest way would be to put it in the ground for a couple of years, dig it when it's big enough and then build the tree from there. I figure in three years, you'll have a decent looking tree." You would swear I insulted one of her kids!

They don't seem to get that this hobby takes a pretty decent commitment in time and learning and is not some latest fad. One of them cooks quite a bit so I came up with an analogy. "What if I never cooked before and I came to you to teach me how to cook a complete Thanksgiving dinner for the whole family............2 days from now." There was a faint glimmer of understanding that flashed over her face. LOL!

 

[LanceMac10]

.......and you don't "eat" until 15-20 years go by......

 

[penumbra]

I have had that same situation arise. Since we are talking about friends I one that there was no way he had the patience and he agreed. Anther friend I told to study trees, the way they grow naturally. Then look at several bonsai displays. Then pick up and study a few books on the subject. Then come back in ten years and we can talk about it. I was not being facetious with these friends but they are long time friends and I know them well. And yes, we remain friends.

 

[Nanuk]

Everyone wants everything RIGHT Now these days.
There's very little in life worth having that comes easy.

They can always have that nice thick trunked Elm right now.
Al they have to do is pay.

 

[Joe Dupre']

Almost as soon as I posted, I received an email from one of the ladies with a picture showing a before and after of her 2" diameter vitex. She put it in a suitable pot, a bit off-center, with the tree leaning back to the opposite side of the pot for a nice balanced appearance. A couple of the branches were quite a bit too long, but that can be fixed down the road. She even appeared to have used pretty decent bonsai soil, too. I commended her highly for actually taking the first step.

 

[Vance Wood]

Almost as soon as I posted, I received an email from one of the ladies with a picture showing a before and after of her 2" diameter vitex. She put it in a suitable pot, a bit off-center, with the tree leaning back to the opposite side of the pot for a nice balanced appearance. A couple of the branches were quite a bit too long, but that can be fixed down the road. She even appeared to have used pretty decent bonsai soil, too. I commended her highly for actually taking the first step.

Maybe this one is serious? Take her seriously until she proves she is not. There is a real sense of accomplishment when one of your students starts to figure it out, and think for themselves.

 

[Michael P]

I try to keep a few small pre-bonsai throw-away trees around. When an unlikely student pleads to learn bonsai, I give one to him/her with detailed instructions on how to care for it. They can contact me anytime to ask questions. I tell them to take it home, keep it alive and healthy for a year, then bring it back to me. Over the years only one person has actually done it. She now has a small but nice collection. All the others never bothered me again.

 

[Daniel son STL]

Everybody doesn’t really understand the full patience of bonsai in the beginning. And most newbies (myself included) want instant gratification. Not that I’m not patient, just want something to look at besides twigs for my first 3-4 years. Probably would have fallen out of the hobby. I always recommend to newbies is to grab yourself a variety of bonsai. Grab yourself seeds, some starter trees, some nice prebonsai material to play with and then maybe a cpl decent looking finished trees (trees in actual bonsai pots), nothing expensive, but something you enjoy that will keep your interest in the hobby. Besides your expectations are a lot lower when first getting started.

While having fun working on trees I’m slowly learning patience. Right off the bat, who wants to take their only potted tree to show off/view and plant in the ground in the back yard for 3 yrs to thicken the trunk??

 

[AZbonsai]

Whenever I show my bonsai to students at my school I take the best ones I have (which are not that great....but getting better) and everything in between from stick in a black nursery container on up. It helps the kids see where they come from and how much time it takes.
We have a ponderosa pine that is about 40ft tall that sits outside of room 4 in our courtyard. I found a yearbook picture from 25 years ago that shows the same tree about 6 feet tall. It is a great example of how big bonsai trees would get if they were just left to grow.

 

[Vance Wood]

We should always be interested in teaching bonsai to the young, it is always time well spent and one out of a dozen sticks it's worth the effort.

 

[Anthony]

When folk come to visit, it takes about 4 visits for them to really see
anything.

Like going to the National Gallery in London, 2 hr visits. once a week
over a month or so.

That is how you can tell, who is really interested.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Paulpash]

I think everyone should try ground growing to teach them patience. If you've spent over a decade growing a good trunk why risk shoehorning it straight into a pot? For me at least there's far more invested growing your own rather than buying a trunk.

I am a teacher and have coached Basketball at a high level. I've learnt that an individual must earn investment - even if they are a friend or outstanding athlete for it's impossible to move forward and to achieve anything without a rock solid attitude. The teacher should do 10% of the work and the student needs to make up the rest in their own time.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I wouldn’t waste my time (or theirs) trying to teach anyone unwilling to learn. I’d invite them over when you’re working on trees, but that’s about it. It might be encouraging for impatient people to see how much work is actually involved in making good Bonsai.

 

[Deleted member 21616]

the number of family and friends i have that are 'interested in bonsai' and who have made impulse purchases is far greater than the number of them who will go so far as to google-search the word.

this same issue exists with dogs, cats, and children...

there are all different types of people in the world

 

[rockm]

I have a sticky situation with a couple of friends that want to "do" bonsai but really don't want to take the time to learn. They ask me questions that would take an hour to explain, but they seem to want the "1 minute answer". : One of them wants to grow a 1" diameter elm.......that I gave them, I might add...... into a 2 and 1/2" diameter trunk while still in the nursery container. They want this in a hurry. I say "Well, the fastest way would be to put it in the ground for a couple of years, dig it when it's big enough and then build the tree from there. I figure in three years, you'll have a decent looking tree." You would swear I insulted one of her kids!

They don't seem to get that this hobby takes a pretty decent commitment in time and learning and is not some latest fad. One of them cooks quite a bit so I came up with an analogy. "What if I never cooked before and I came to you to teach me how to cook a complete Thanksgiving dinner for the whole family............2 days from now." There was a faint glimmer of understanding that flashed over her face. LOL!

Funny this comes up ALL the time right HERE and has been coming up for all the time I've been posting on bonsai forums.

Newbies will INSIST that things happen immediately with questionable or crummy material. Years ago I tried to explain to a woman posting from Alabama that the inch diameter southern Magnolia she was going to grow in a pot inside would not work. You'd think I'd crapped in living room...

There are those that THINK they're interested in bonsai (or insert any other activity), but when it comes to the actual DOING, they really aren't all that interested. Nature of the beast.

Let them go do what they want. They'll get discouraged when their plant dies or doesn't become a picture perfect tree in a couple of months. They'll move on to the next thing they'll lose interest in...

Cynical? Me? naaaah

 

[rockm]

Everybody doesn’t really understand the full patience of bonsai in the beginning. And most newbies (myself included) want instant gratification. Not that I’m not patient, just want something to look at besides twigs for my first 3-4 years. Probably would have fallen out of the hobby. I always recommend to newbies is to grab yourself a variety of bonsai. Grab yourself seeds, some starter trees, some nice prebonsai material to play with and then maybe a cpl decent looking finished trees (trees in actual bonsai pots), nothing expensive, but something you enjoy that will keep your interest in the hobby. Besides your expectations are a lot lower when first getting started.

While having fun working on trees I’m slowly learning patience. Right off the bat, who wants to take their only potted tree to show off/view and plant in the ground in the back yard for 3 yrs to thicken the trunk??

I advise beginners who have stuck it out for more than six months to a year to go out and buy the best developed bonsai they can. That satisfies the urge to have something to look at. It takes pressure off of what's still cooking in development stages...

 

[Deleted member 21616]

I advise beginners who have stuck it out for more than six months to a year to go out and buy the best developed bonsai they can.

just making conversation -- I'm about 2-3 years into taking bonsai seriously now, and about 6-8 months in i realized that I was less interested 'finished' bonsai and more interested in developing interesting material for others to refine. I just don't have an artist's eye (I think that this is a weakness for a lot of people in bonsai). you are right that those first 6 months are crucial for understanding the practice and commitment, but also for understanding one's place in the practice. I think too many people come to bonsai assuming that there is only 1 role in the field: master artist. for that reason, i'd say buying the 'best developed bonsai' isn't necessarily the next best step for a lot people who have stuck it out for 6-12 months, although i'm sure that that makes a lot of sense for a lot of people

 

[rockm]

just making conversation -- I'm about 2-3 years into taking bonsai seriously now, and about 6-8 months in i realized that I was less interested 'finished' bonsai and more interested in developing interesting material for others to refine. I just don't have an artist's eye (I think that this is a weakness for a lot of people in bonsai). you are right that those first 6 months are crucial for understanding the practice and commitment, but also for understanding one's place in the practice. I think too many people come to bonsai assuming that there is only 1 role in the field: master artist. for that reason, i'd say buying the 'best developed bonsai' isn't necessarily the next best step for a lot people who have stuck it out for 6-12 months, although i'm sure that that makes a lot of sense for a lot of people

Not a necessary step, but it's a smart one. Getting a developed bonsai, along with satisfying the visual itch to have a "real" bonsai, will also help you learn a lot more than simply growing out material. There is no push to become a "master" with such a purchase. It is an investment in the trees you are developing. Learning to care and shape the developed tree will also teach you the techniques you will need to further develop your starter stock.

 

[Vance Wood]

just making conversation -- I'm about 2-3 years into taking bonsai seriously now, and about 6-8 months in i realized that I was less interested 'finished' bonsai and more interested in developing interesting material for others to refine. I just don't have an artist's eye (I think that this is a weakness for a lot of people in bonsai). you are right that those first 6 months are crucial for understanding the practice and commitment, but also for understanding one's place in the practice. I think too many people come to bonsai assuming that there is only 1 role in the field: master artist. for that reason, i'd say buying the 'best developed bonsai' isn't necessarily the next best step for a lot people who have stuck it out for 6-12 months, although i'm sure that that makes a lot of sense for a lot of people

I disagree with the conclusion that some don't have an artists eye. It is possible to learn form and style and it is possible to produce cookie cutter bonsai for the rest of your life. It is possible to go beyond that if you choose to do so, most people do not choose to do so. It is easier for them to make the incompetence claim rather than hold themselves accountable.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I disagree with the conclusion that some don't have an artists eye. It is possible to learn form and style and it is possible to produce cookie cutter bonsai for the rest of your life. It is possible to go beyond that if you choose to do so, most people do not choose to do so. It is easier for them to make the incompetence claim rather than hold themselves accountable.

I dunno Vance. I’ve seen a lot of poor work turned out by people who’ve been doing this a looooong time.