Ten Months of a hedged maple.

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#21
I get it.

Couple of tips. When growing out the branches do not be afraid to cut back each year. Cut back all of this years growth to the first nodes. This next years growth will extend the branch and possbly add some forks. Then we can start to develop a nice branch. Keeping the overlong branches with long internodes makes no one happy.

Cut um back!
Thanks Smoke. I have a similar maple. I have also neglected to cut back as you show. I will begin such a cut back in the spring of 2014....correct? Cut back just before the spring growth starts? (I am Michigan based and will come out of winter dormancy in spring). Thanks for the posts, the incredibly helpful photos and the clear commentary. Appreciated!
 
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#22
I'd not put the Chojubai in the ground. I did it to one spring '11, and after one winter in the ground here in Chicago, it had a fair amt. of die back. So now, all my Chojubai are in pots. I also think I read the same advice from Brent at Evergreen.
I think I've actually read the opposite of this from Bill Valvanis. I believe he keeps chojubai in the ground, because they are not as hardy in pots. I could be mistaken but I'm 95% sure that is what he said. I would try and find the post but I can't recall what forum it would be in.
 

JudyB

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#23
I think I've actually read the opposite of this from Bill Valvanis. I believe he keeps chojubai in the ground, because they are not as hardy in pots. I could be mistaken but I'm 95% sure that is what he said. I would try and find the post but I can't recall what forum it would be in.
Tom, basically nothing is as hardy in a pot as it is in the ground. I believe the point here is that in a pot, you can make a protection scheme, and virtually create a different (milder) zone to overwinter the tree.
 
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#24
Tom, basically nothing is as hardy in a pot as it is in the ground. I believe the point here is that in a pot, you can make a protection scheme, and virtually create a different (milder) zone to overwinter the tree.
Yes agreed Judy, maybe Bill can chime in I think he had given up in keeping his chojubai in pots.
 

coh

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#26
Regarding chojubai...Bill has both the red and white varieties planted in his garden here in Rochester. See post 18 in this thread: http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?6978-Chojubai-quince/page2
Our winter climate is a little less harsh than the Chicago area (the lakes moderate the temperatures just enough) so they might not do as well out there. I would think they would be fine in SE Pennsylvania.

I'm pretty sure Bill also has potted specimens in his collection. He winters most of his trees in a heated garage kept at/above about 27 or 28 F, so they are not exposed to the really harsh temperatures. If I'm incorrect in any of this, hopefully he'll chime in when he has a chance.

Chris
 
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#27
Well, I could definitely be wrong. Perhaps I misremembered as it looks like he has both red and white potted up.

Sorry to detract from this thread, Al's work is incredible and deserves full attention to his maple refining.
 
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#28
Oh my. ..slap me on bread because I'm jelly baby! Maples are my favorite spcies. That looks great already. I can see it in a few years looking so weathered and gnarly in a great pot. Thanks for posting!
 
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#29
Regarding chojubai...Bill has both the red and white varieties planted in his garden here in Rochester. See post 18 in this thread: http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?6978-Chojubai-quince/page2
Our winter climate is a little less harsh than the Chicago area (the lakes moderate the temperatures just enough) so they might not do as well out there. I would think they would be fine in SE Pennsylvania.

I'm pretty sure Bill also has potted specimens in his collection. He winters most of his trees in a heated garage kept at/above about 27 or 28 F, so they are not exposed to the really harsh temperatures. If I'm incorrect in any of this, hopefully he'll chime in when he has a chance.

Chris
I tried to find where I got read that from Brent. No luck, sorry. But I did find this where is says to avoid frosts: http://www.absolutebonsai.com/quince_bonsai

About my locale, I live very close to the lake. We have pretty good winds whipping thru the yard. And all I can share is my limited experience.
 
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#30
Yea,thanks for the tips with my Chojubai.Every bit of info that was sited by everyone,I have read also.Brent states that they will grow just as fast in a five gallon container as they do in the ground.I once seen a post of Bill's where they were in the ground.I just love the idea of making one rocket away in a root pouch to get some size and I think I am going to do that.Stop pruning once a year and get some girth.I would prefer a non circling and air pruning root environment in that case and then put under my mobile home.I have 5 of them.I just love Hagedorns Chojubai on his blog.I am up for the challenge.Okay,enough about Chojubai.Thanks,Smoke.Show us some more tridents please.
 

Smoke

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#31
When I go to the movies I love to get a box of jujubes, are these chojubai similer?

Well, tonight I did two more. Seven more to go.

These two are fat also. All about 12 inches tall and about 4 inches across the waist, some are larger at the ground.

This one is pretty gnarly with lots of scar and some weird taper issue. I did some carving with a knob cutter and slimmed down some bulging areas to give the trunk better taper. It was very top heavy with branches and so this next year I will keep the top cut back and let the bottom gro.
 

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Smoke

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#32
This one is pretty ugly also. It has some very large scars from the field and they are healing pretty well. Some healed by half even in these containers. It does have some weird callus that will have to be cut over later.

I had left a pretty large stub at the time of collection, but nothing popped on the stub. I just knew there had to be a bud there somewhere, but no. A whole new leader popped adjacent to the stub I left. That is the one I will cut to.

Took off all the leaves to see what I'm doing.
 

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Smoke

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#33
The large stub I had left was dried out. The tree had already compartmentilized the stub from the tree. There is no interchange of anything between these two parts of the tree. The white line is the demarcation of the dead part above and the live part below.

I sawed the stub off with a fine toothed saw just above the line.

Then with a knob cutter rounded the cut down below the line to the green cambium below. now the tree will heal at that point.

The tree was wired for next year and placed back in the grow area.


Got seven more to do. Whish a few of you guys could come over and help.
 

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#34
Something tells me that these trees will just get smoother and smoother looking.Nice to see the autumn work you are putting into them.The proportions are great.A tree that is easy to carry and handle,but with nice proportioned trunk.
 
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#37
Excellent instruction example

The large stub I had left was dried out. The tree had already compartmentilized the stub from the tree. There is no interchange of anything between these two parts of the tree. The white line is the demarcation of the dead part above and the live part below.

I sawed the stub off with a fine toothed saw just above the line.

Then with a knob cutter rounded the cut down below the line to the green cambium below. now the tree will heal at that point.

The tree was wired for next year and placed back in the grow area.


Got seven more to do. Whish a few of you guys could come over and help.
Thanks Smoke. This is particularly good instruction on how-to-do-things right. I appreciate your taking the time to show the work photographically in stages....remembering to bring your camera to the workbench. This is very helpful and views work progression not usually seen.
 

Smoke

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#38
Worked on more of the big ones today.

The taller ones will both be layered in the spring to make four trees.

All of todays work will be posted at the blog.
 

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#39
Wait till you see a couple of the others. I spent more time on this one since it was the subject of many of my posts this summer on hedging maples. The others are a bit more course in the branching but the trunks are much better. This will be the first year to start doing root work on them since they were cut hard at digging. I expect to have a whole ten gallon tub full of roots and can cut away much of the heavy field rootage and concentrate on building a more spread base.
When you say hedging, do You mean the same WP hedge method?

Couple of tips. When growing out the branches do not be afraid to cut back each year. Cut back all of this years growth to the first nodes. This next years growth will extend the branch and possbly add some forks. Then we can start to develop a nice branch. Keeping the overlong branches with long internodes makes no one happy.



Cut um back!
How do you thicken your branches? I know of several options...one is to grow it fat and chop back hard, like a leader.
Second is some people grow thin branches and ramify them even...and thicken them some how...Is that the method You use?
How do you thicken your branches?

Also I noticed You dont cut branches flush with the trunk but leave a small stub.
Any particular reason? Do You grind them after some time?

The large stub I had left was dried out. The tree had already compartmentilized the stub from the tree. There is no interchange of anything between these two parts of the tree. The white line is the demarcation of the dead part above and the live part below.

I sawed the stub off with a fine toothed saw just above the line.

Then with a knob cutter rounded the cut down below the line to the green cambium below. now the tree will heal at that point.

The tree was wired for next year and placed back in the grow area.


Got seven more to do. Whish a few of you guys could come over and help.
I have a similar dry area on a maple on the side on a leader. I filed it today, but there is still some dry part in the center though the cambium is live on the sides. Actually most of the area inside the cambium is dry. it is like a angled cut under a leader, so I was scared to grind it more.
Can it heal like this or I have to remove all the dry wood in between?
 

Smoke

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#40
When you say hedging, do You mean the same WP hedge method?
I have no idea how walter does his. I have never read his blog in that much detail or even know if its there. I prune/shear/ hedge to a predetermined shape and do that continually thru the year, and detail prune in fall as I have shown. I have done that for years.



How do you thicken your branches? I know of several options...one is to grow it fat and chop back hard, like a leader.
Second is some people grow thin branches and ramify them even...and thicken them some how...Is that the method You use?
How do you thicken your branches?
I thicken branches as you say by pruning back until it is the size I want. branches on tridents will out grow a tree in five years so it is short lived. Shohin size tree I mean. On shohin I ramify small branches and allow them to thicken naturally in small pots. Larger trees I use sacrifice methods.


Also I noticed You dont cut branches flush with the trunk but leave a small stub.
Any particular reason? Do You grind them after some time?
I am not sure what you mean here. If you speak of the large stub I left, it was because I was hoping for a adventious bud to pop on that leader. It did not and I used one that popped adjacent to it. At that time it was right to remove it with a saw or grinder/power tool.




I have a similar dry area on a maple on the side on a leader. I filed it today, but there is still some dry part in the center though the cambium is live on the sides. Actually most of the area inside the cambium is dry. it is like a angled cut under a leader, so I was scared to grind it more.
Can it heal like this or I have to remove all the dry wood in between?
Removing the dry wood is unnecessary on tridents. It will heal over in time. It will heal faster if there are small buds nearby that you can let grow for a year and then cut off later. A bud above a scar is advantages. Below not so much. Each year cut the margin of the callus to green edges, all the way along the dry area and seal well. This will keep the callus moving. make sure the scar area is smooth as it does not take much to stall a callus.


If you have worked on that trident from Japan, post some pics or at least some semi close ups of the whole tree. I would like to see it better.
 

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