The best advice from bonsai masters youve gotten

leatherback

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After working a tree, leave it alone and wait for vigor to return. Only work healthy trees. - Several
Only time creates true age; Therefor, take your time and don't push a tree in a bonsai pot too early.
 

rockm

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Don't understand what you mean...

"Doesn't really depend" on whether a tree is cut down into bonsai --which this tree obviously has been if you look at the chop marks and forced taper.

All bonsai begin as seeds. It depends on the bonsaiists' decision on when to make a tree out of it.

little bonsai don't become big bonsai--which is also true here. This tree was not a little bonsai that grew into the pot its in now. It was a tree under development with an eye to becoming a larger bonsai.
 

Velodog2

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Don't understand what you mean...

"Doesn't really depend" on whether a tree is cut down into bonsai --which this tree obviously has been if you look at the chop marks and forced taper.

All bonsai begin as seeds. It depends on the bonsaiists' decision on when to make a tree out of it.

little bonsai don't become big bonsai--which is also true here. This tree was not a little bonsai that grew into the pot its in now. It was a tree under development with an eye to becoming a larger bonsai.

Hard to argue that a tree doesn’t have to be first ‘grown up’ before it can be ‘cut down’. I think there is good argument against the axiom that bonsai are always cut down being always always always true, and I have a number of examples of my own trees that were grown up and never cut down I could post pics of. It doesn’t mean it’s not good advice however. I can attest that the grow up method takes longer and generally results in a more feminine (ie less bulky) tree than cutting down, and probably takes longer to boot.
 

Cosmos

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Thierry Font, a Japan-trained French professional who passed away a few years ago, did some insightful workshops, some of them are on YT.

In one of them, when talking about a beautiful oak that doesn't meet the traditional criteria for proportions and shape, he says:

"We need to remove the bonsai pictures from our head, we need to start thinking tree...this remains an oak. If you want to make bonsai with nicely defined pads, do not choose an oak."

"The Japanese say that a tree is supposed to evoke something... if you do not feel anything in front a tree, it's not worth bothering. Often, in front of massive, hyper-worked trees, you feel nothing."

"From afar, you can distinguish between the species by the shape of the branches. If your overwork or overwire the branches, you lose that shape. When you wire, you need to think "oak"

"If you don't know what to do with a tree (in terms of styling), you cultivate it so that it is strong and vigorous, and the tree will build itself."

"The oak knows how to do oak branches, you don't. Let it build its branches, you just need to give it a hand, for example through bud selection."

"When you select your branches, consider their beauty, not their location. (...) Better to have a beautiful branch in a bad spot than an ugly branch in the right location."

"If you think like this, you will know how to build trees. People will come up to you and say "but it's not a bonsai" and you will answer "well, fortunately it's not."

"The random guy who has 2,000 oaks in his garden knows more about them than the master who has only one. (...) José Maria, to refine his pruning technique on olive trees, went to see the farmers pruning olive trees everyday all year long. He thought the way these pruned branches reacted created the best-looking branches in the end."

"You know, wiring and jin treatment, those were invented recently by the professional growers in Japan to speed things up. To get that old deadwood look on an itoigawa, it takes twenty years...well the grower doesn't eat during twenty years if he can't speed things up. You apply the solution and bam, it looks old and in the same year you can sell the trees. Same thing with wiring. Bonsai used to be done only with shears. Wiring is recent. They even did conifers like that. Can you imagine. Or by breaking and twisting branches with your hands. With olive trees, you have a upward growing branch, you twist it and pull it down over and over and it's going to stay low"

"Something we need to do in France, and in Europe, is to let go of our ego and go see a guy who knows how to graft (when you need grafts). It's not a shame to go see a professional who knows how to do it very well. People will say "but you didn't do it yourself", but who cares, it's still my tree. In Japan, they're not afraid to that, they go see guys who are expert grafters, who do it almost exclusively. Cultivators in the south of France call grafting professionals for vines and olive trees, and it's still their wine and their olive oil after that...".

"(On grafting) The Japanese find it striking about us Europeans, they say "you guys collect yamadori with such beautiful trunks, but the branches on them are super ugly". That's because we want to build branches with what's there, when we need to replace it all. The branches that the tree built in the mountain are of no use for us, the foliage is too far out. They look good in their natural setting, but once the tree is in a pot, you see the problem with their length.(...) The Japanese say that with any tree, even one with a mediocre trunk, you can make a beautiful tree if the ramification and the branches are pretty."

"At Murata's place, you see trees with tiny trunks, big like my fingers, but with impeccable branches with great movement and no traces of pruning, and you say wow. But it doesn't suit everybody... most guys (foreigners) who go to his garden look at trees and say that they're underworked, whereas Murata would tell you "yeah, I know, I work my trees too much" and you're like wait a minute, there is something we do not understand here. As soon as you do not see the traces of the work done on a tree, you need to tell yourself "that guy is solid", no matter if the tree correspond to your tastes or not".
 

amatbrewer

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In a class where we received pre-bonsai trees with little choice as to what we got, most of us were totally stumped what to make of them. The advice was to take them home and just look at them until next week’s class. “Develop a relationship with the tree. Eventually you will start seeing the potential the material has. Only then start cutting and shaping.” I was amazed at how effective that was then, and continues to be today. Really good advice for someone as impulsive as I am.
 

MichaelS

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Bonsai should look like real trees, only better - paraphrased from Dan Barton, and how I repudiate “naturalistic” styling.
This is the biggest problem. Actually believing that bonsai can be ''better'' than real trees. Just human arrogance. Dan Barton has much to learn.
 

MichaelS

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Thierry Font, a Japan-trained French professional who passed away a few years ago, did some insightful workshops, some of them are on YT.

In one of them, when talking about a beautiful oak that doesn't meet the traditional criteria for proportions and shape, he says:

"We need to remove the bonsai pictures from our head, we need to start thinking tree...this remains an oak. If you want to make bonsai with nicely defined pads, do not choose an oak."

"The Japanese say that a tree is supposed to evoke something... if you do not feel anything in front a tree, it's not worth bothering. Often, in front of massive, hyper-worked trees, you feel nothing."

"From afar, you can distinguish between the species by the shape of the branches. If your overwork or overwire the branches, you lose that shape. When you wire, you need to think "oak"

"If you don't know what to do with a tree (in terms of styling), you cultivate it so that it is strong and vigorous, and the tree will build itself."

"The oak knows how to do oak branches, you don't. Let it build its branches, you just need to give it a hand, for example through bud selection."

"When you select your branches, consider their beauty, not their location. (...) Better to have a beautiful branch in a bad spot than an ugly branch in the right location."

"If you think like this, you will know how to build trees. People will come up to you and say "but it's not a bonsai" and you will answer "well, fortunately it's not."

"The random guy who has 2,000 oaks in his garden knows more about them than the master who has only one. (...) José Maria, to refine his pruning technique on olive trees, went to see the farmers pruning olive trees everyday all year long. He thought the way these pruned branches reacted created the best-looking branches in the end."

"You know, wiring and jin treatment, those were invented recently by the professional growers in Japan to speed things up. To get that old deadwood look on an itoigawa, it takes twenty years...well the grower doesn't eat during twenty years if he can't speed things up. You apply the solution and bam, it looks old and in the same year you can sell the trees. Same thing with wiring. Bonsai used to be done only with shears. Wiring is recent. They even did conifers like that. Can you imagine. Or by breaking and twisting branches with your hands. With olive trees, you have a upward growing branch, you twist it and pull it down over and over and it's going to stay low"

"Something we need to do in France, and in Europe, is to let go of our ego and go see a guy who knows how to graft (when you need grafts). It's not a shame to go see a professional who knows how to do it very well. People will say "but you didn't do it yourself", but who cares, it's still my tree. In Japan, they're not afraid to that, they go see guys who are expert grafters, who do it almost exclusively. Cultivators in the south of France call grafting professionals for vines and olive trees, and it's still their wine and their olive oil after that...".

"(On grafting) The Japanese find it striking about us Europeans, they say "you guys collect yamadori with such beautiful trunks, but the branches on them are super ugly". That's because we want to build branches with what's there, when we need to replace it all. The branches that the tree built in the mountain are of no use for us, the foliage is too far out. They look good in their natural setting, but once the tree is in a pot, you see the problem with their length.(...) The Japanese say that with any tree, even one with a mediocre trunk, you can make a beautiful tree if the ramification and the branches are pretty."

"At Murata's place, you see trees with tiny trunks, big like my fingers, but with impeccable branches with great movement and no traces of pruning, and you say wow. But it doesn't suit everybody... most guys (foreigners) who go to his garden look at trees and say that they're underworked, whereas Murata would tell you "yeah, I know, I work my trees too much" and you're like wait a minute, there is something we do not understand here. As soon as you do not see the traces of the work done on a tree, you need to tell yourself "that guy is solid", no matter if the tree correspond to your tastes or not".

This by far the best post on this forum I have read for many months. (especially the last paragraph) but it's all gold.
 

Cosmos

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This by far the best post on this forum I have read for many months. (especially the last paragraph) but it's all gold.

Thank you.

There are about 15 of his workshops on YT, I could create a thread where I translate the best little nuggets from each one, perhaps?
 

Paulpash

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"Sometimes the fastest way to get good bonsai is to do bugger all. Strategic laziness with your shears will save many trees, especially when you are a beginner".

This is what I would have said to myself 20 odd years back.
 

MichaelS

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Thank you.

There are about 15 of his workshops on YT, I could create a thread where I translate the best little nuggets from each one, perhaps?
I for one would be very grateful. I don't know about others, but anyone with half a brain will realize this guy is way ahead of the run of the mill ''masters''. Please do and let folks get out of it what they will.
Thankyou for offering.
 
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