The best advice from bonsai masters youve gotten

Lochamp

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Paraphrasing

Healthy roots, trunk, branches, leaves, in that order

A youtube video from someone i forget. May not have been 'pro' but makes sense

Tyler Sherrard told our group that his master would ask, Skinny and Long, or Short and Fat? With the point being what to make out of a tree.
 

Mike Hennigan

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Skip working with seedlings or seeds if you want to do actual bonsai.

Bonsai are NOT grown up. They are cut down.

Little bonsai don't become big bonsai.

I feel like Bill Valavanis would probably disagree with you since he’s produced hundred of amazing trees from seed and from cuttings.

Depends on if you want to take the Longview and develop trees or if you just want to get into refinement sooner. If someone’s already older I understand they may not have the time to develop a seedling or cutting into the tree they want. But I believe if you’re trying to develop a superior scarless maple for example, the best way to do it is from seed or cutting.

Also just because you buy good pre-bonsai stock doesn’t mean that material just appeared. Someone else developed it from seed or cutting or airlayer and that air layer was taken from a tree started from seed or cutting.

Developing high caliber prebonsai from seed or cutting is just as much a part of “actual bonsai” as refining a tree.
 

Mike Hennigan

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To further illustrate my point, Dennis Vojtilla has won the “Finest Deciduous” category at the national show twice in a row now. Both his maple from this past years show and his birch from the 2016 show were grown by him from seedlings, as far as I know.
 

Shibui

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From a workshop with Tom Yamamoto many years ago when a participant explained he saw some problem aspect with the material:
'You have ploblem? Cut him off - no more ploblem!'
Sounded quite funny at the time but later I could see the wisdom- Instead of worrying about something that is getting in the way of designing a tree get out the cutters or saw and then get on with designing a better bonsai from whatever is left.
 

wrcmad

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Skip working with seedlings or seeds if you want to do actual bonsai.

Bonsai are NOT grown up. They are cut down.

Little bonsai don't become big bonsai.
100% disagree.
Bonsai are grown, topiary is cut down.
After 30+ years, my collection now consists entirely of trees I have propagated and grown myself from seed or cutting.
All trees I had previously developed from nursery stock have been moved on due to inferior quality.
 

coh

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LOL...How about this instead: "Bonsai can be developed from larger trees that are cut down, or they can be grown up from seed, cuttings, etc." Does that make
everyone happy? I'm sure it won't...

One of my favorite lines, not so much "advice" but still worth considering, was from Jack Wikle. Talking about growing his junipers indoors under lights
all year, he said (paraphrasing here) "I'm glad that when I started, I didn't know what I was trying to do was impossible."
 

Adair M

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100% disagree.
Bonsai are grown, topiary is cut down.
After 30+ years, my collection now consists entirely of trees I have propagated and grown myself from seed or cutting.
All trees I had previously developed from nursery stock have been moved on due to inferior quality.
Hmm...

There’s some truth in both the “cut down”, and “grow up” schools of bonsai creation. Superior bonsai can be created either way.
The best deciduous trees are usually “grown”. And the best conifers are usually created by “reducing” larger trees to be shorter trees.

There are exceptions to both these generalizations, of course.

@wrcmad, perhaps if you had better skills when you first started out working with nursery stock you would have made trees that now, 30 years later, would be keepers? You didn’t elaborate on what made those trees inferior, but now, with 30 years of experience I suspect you could give those trees better treatment than you did way back then.

For example, Mr. Ebihara took a zelkova with about a 6 inch diameter trunk, chopped it, and completely developed a fabulous broom style tree. He was later offered, and rejected, $1 million for it. He has amazing grafting skills.

A Japanese White Pine, at 30 years old, would not have fully developed bark. They don’t even start to lose their juvenile smooth grey bark until they reach 20 to 25 years old. That’s just when they start! At 30, they might get a little flakey. They don’t develop plated bark until they get to be about 40 years old. Frankly, most of us don’t get to mess with bonsai that long!
 

0soyoung

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Interesting...

Because knowing “how” is a requirement to making bonsai.

It’s NOT necessary to know “why” a technique works.
And therein probably lies the explanation of why [sic] my trees suck and yours don't.
The instant you say 'because', you're in deep dodo.

I've never made it beyond being 3 years old, I guess. I'm preoccupied by 'why'.

You show me how and I ask, why does that work?
 

wrcmad

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@wrcmad, perhaps if you had better skills when you first started out working with nursery stock you would have made trees that now, 30 years later, would be keepers? You didn’t elaborate on what made those trees inferior, but now, with 30 years of experience I suspect you could give those trees better treatment than you did way back then.
No doubt my skills are much better now than when I started out - that may be a contributing factor.
However, in my experience, most nursery stock is sought by hobbyists to "turn into a bonsai". With near-certain regularity, the intent of scouting nursery material by hobbyists is to short-cut the growing phase and find something they can start to refine NOW. It is also with near-certainty that the decision to purchase a particular piece of nursery-stock is a compromise which balances the flaws or lack of quality presented in the chosen material, with purchase price. Thus, most material is inherently flawed from the start, which is understandable as most material is mass-produced on a commercial scale. These flaws tend to stay with the tree. Additionally, in my experience, most of the best of any main-stream bonsai nursery has been picked over, not least before the nurseryman has set-aside the best pieces for himself. Thus, it is my expectation that most nursery material will be sub-par.

I persevered for years with some of my own flawed nursery stock, and my attempts to improve and correct major flaws were of limited success - but I did learn an abundance of skills trying. However, I finally realised that to achieve the final result I wanted to achieve, I could grow my own and give the material the attention needed to not only correct any flaws early, but develop the characteristics I wanted in a tree while it was developing and growing. The end results were far superior.
 

Gsquared

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Sensei: Have you worked on a pine yet?
Me: No.
Sensei: Why not, you really learn so much from them.
Me: But they take so long, I don’t have the patience to wait 10 years.
Sensei: The time is going to pass whether you work on a tree or not so you may as well try a pine.
 

Adair M

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No doubt my skills are much better now than when I started out - that may be a contributing factor.
However, in my experience, most nursery stock is sought by hobbyists to "turn into a bonsai". With near-certain regularity, the intent of scouting nursery material by hobbyists is to short-cut the growing phase and find something they can start to refine NOW. It is also with near-certainty that the decision to purchase a particular piece of nursery-stock is a compromise which balances the flaws or lack of quality presented in the chosen material, with purchase price. Thus, most material is inherently flawed from the start, which is understandable as most material is mass-produced on a commercial scale. These flaws tend to stay with the tree. Additionally, in my experience, most of the best of any main-stream bonsai nursery has been picked over, not least before the nurseryman has set-aside the best pieces for himself. Thus, it is my expectation that most nursery material will be sub-par.

I persevered for years with some of my own flawed nursery stock, and my attempts to improve and correct major flaws were of limited success - but I did learn an abundance of skills trying. However, I finally realised that to achieve the final result I wanted to achieve, I could grow my own and give the material the attention needed to not only correct any flaws early, but develop the characteristics I wanted in a tree while it was developing and growing. The end results were far superior.
Well, learning how to choose nursery stock is a skill in and of itself. And then, there is nursery stock that has been grown for bonsai, rather than as landscape material.

The other approach is to take landscape material, do some well planned cuts, and then let it grow back out to heal the wounds and rejuvenate. The thing most beginners do with newly acquired nursery stock is attempt to do everything at once. Cut it way back, wire the branches, reduce the roots and stick in a bonsai pot. Given such treatment, it’s hardly surprising that many die, or die back, refuse to heal wounds, and just not develop.

If instead? A few selected branches were removed, and the tree left in its container with roots untouched, and given appropriate fertilizer would probably rebound quickly. New growth would replace the lost foliage, scars would heal over. The tree would then be strong enough to endure yet another cut back and maybe some wiring. The following year, perhaps a root reduction. Not into a bonsai pot, but into a generous sized grow pot.

Sure, this “take it slow” course of action means you don’t have an attractive bonsai on the shelf for several years. But, after several years you will have a decent trunk with healed or nearly healed wounds, shorter branches with foliage close to the trunk on a manageable root ball.

Bonsai shops will offer this kind of material for sale in a “ready for styling” condition. Pre-bonsai. They do the patient waiting game for you. Sure, the material costs 4 times as much as it would from the landscape nursery, but you don’t have to wait 3 or 4 years to have material to work with.

I suspect that during your early days, you did the “complete styling in one go” approach. I did. Once stuck in a bonsai pot, real “growth” stops. Oh, you get new foliage, but nothing substantial.

This is a hard lesson to learn. Bonsai cannot be rushed. It’s better to take it slow, let the tree stay strong so that it can quickly recover from the things we do to direct it’s growth.

“For faster bonsai, take it slow”! Lol!!!
 

Smoke

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I feel like Bill Valavanis would probably disagree with you since he’s produced hundred of amazing trees from seed and from cuttings.

Depends on if you want to take the Longview and develop trees or if you just want to get into refinement sooner. If someone’s already older I understand they may not have the time to develop a seedling or cutting into the tree they want. But I believe if you’re trying to develop a superior scarless maple for example, the best way to do it is from seed or cutting.

Also just because you buy good pre-bonsai stock doesn’t mean that material just appeared. Someone else developed it from seed or cutting or airlayer and that air layer was taken from a tree started from seed or cutting.

Developing high caliber prebonsai from seed or cutting is just as much a part of “actual bonsai” as refining a tree.
Maybe before you say that you should look at the maples post from last week or so and look at all the wonderful trees Bill posted. I think everyone of them shows the scars of the chops, in numerous places. I would never say Bill doesn't have any maples that have never been chopped, but as far as the ones he's posted here, they are all chopped.

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/are-great-maples-chopped-come-share-your-thoughts.36215/page-3

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/share-your-deciduous-winter-silhouettes.36357/page-2#post-611892
 

Smoke

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100% disagree.
Bonsai are grown, topiary is cut down.
After 30+ years, my collection now consists entirely of trees I have propagated and grown myself from seed or cutting.
All trees I had previously developed from nursery stock have been moved on due to inferior quality.
Have you posted any pictures of them here?
 

KiwiPlantGuy

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Well, learning how to choose nursery stock is a skill in and of itself. And then, there is nursery stock that has been grown for bonsai, rather than as landscape material.

The other approach is to take landscape material, do some well planned cuts, and then let it grow back out to heal the wounds and rejuvenate. The thing most beginners do with newly acquired nursery stock is attempt to do everything at once. Cut it way back, wire the branches, reduce the roots and stick in a bonsai pot. Given such treatment, it’s hardly surprising that many die, or die back, refuse to heal wounds, and just not develop.

If instead? A few selected branches were removed, and the tree left in its container with roots untouched, and given appropriate fertilizer would probably rebound quickly. New growth would replace the lost foliage, scars would heal over. The tree would then be strong enough to endure yet another cut back and maybe some wiring. The following year, perhaps a root reduction. Not into a bonsai pot, but into a generous sized grow pot.

Sure, this “take it slow” course of action means you don’t have an attractive bonsai on the shelf for several years. But, after several years you will have a decent trunk with healed or nearly healed wounds, shorter branches with foliage close to the trunk on a manageable root ball.

Bonsai shops will offer this kind of material for sale in a “ready for styling” condition. Pre-bonsai. They do the patient waiting game for you. Sure, the material costs 4 times as much as it would from the landscape nursery, but you don’t have to wait 3 or 4 years to have material to work with.

I suspect that during your early days, you did the “complete styling in one go” approach. I did. Once stuck in a bonsai pot, real “growth” stops. Oh, you get new foliage, but nothing substantial.

This is a hard lesson to learn. Bonsai cannot be rushed. It’s better to take it slow, let the tree stay strong so that it can quickly recover from the things we do to direct it’s growth.

“For faster bonsai, take it slow”! Lol!!!

Hi again,
So I have recently purchased a quite large Swamp Cypress - see picture
B7ACBD21-75B9-488C-9ADD-74E2B0B1D393.jpeg54462B47-E7C1-4D81-97E8-4C9D270C937B.jpeg
So this cost me $95. I am planning on chopping to 35-50cm, doing root work, planting in large box and grow for 5 plus years.
Any advice, or from any other well-experience folks here.
Charles
 

Potawatomi13

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There is no bad material; only less talented Bonsai artist. Masahiko Kimura.
 
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