The best advice from bonsai masters youve gotten

[Mike Hennigan]

Your debate means nothing to most people doing bonsai today. Bill has been doing bonsai for half a century. He has some trees from fifty years ago that he started. That is all. Doesn’t make them better or worse. Just means he knows the pedigree. My whole collection was started from seeds, cuttings or layers. What’s your point? How many of those plants started fifty years ago are still in his collection that didn’t fit his ideal. If your trying to tell me that growing out material for your self is superior to purchasing something far superior than you can grow... I’ll let the forum debate that. You already know I don’t agree with that.

Smoke I wasn’t the one claiming better or worse, someone claimed seedlings are a waste of time. I pointed out that they don’t have to be, and provided some examples. Read the posts. I said seedlings and cuttings can produce superior trees. Where the hell do you think that developed material you’re buying from the prebonsai vendor came from? Seed and cutting. Buy good prebonsai that is GROWN for bonsai (at least when it comes to deciduous) and you’ll have an easier time making a superior tree of it. I was mostly referencing the idea of just taking a fat nursery trunk and chopping it down and building a tree on top of it. Which can yield great results. But you’ll have more control over the aesthetic and final product if you develop from seed or cutting OR you buy a tree that was develop from seed or cutting with bonsai in mind.

 

[Mike Hennigan]

I collect wild deciduous all the time too, bigger trunks that I cut down. But I know the hawthorns and American hornbeam I collect aren’t going to heal scars the way they would if I was developing them from seedling. And that’s fine, I like scars and deadwood on material that I want scars on. All I’m trying to say is there’s more than one way to skin a cat, and sometimes different methods are more appropriate for different aesthetics. I’m done now. Lol.

 

[Smoke]

I collect wild deciduous all the time too, bigger trunks that I cut down. But I know the hawthorns and American hornbeam I collect aren’t going to heal scars the way they would if I was developing them from seedling. And that’s fine, I like scars and deadwood on material that I want scars on. All I’m trying to say is there’s more than one way to skin a cat, and sometimes different methods are more appropriate for different aesthetics. I’m done now. Lol.

Good God, I hope you convinced yourself. I was getting more dizzy every time you completed a circle, and said the same thing every time. I got you though loud and clear.

 

[wrcmad]

You guys are debating me rather than the words. That’s why I put all the quote sequence in the post. If there is clarification needed, which there was/is. He did say “bonsai are grown up, topiary are cut down”. So his disagreement did hold water. You guys say the words I just hold you to them. That is not liked a lot, truth hurts.

Truth doesn't hurt too much. In this case, the semantics tit-for-tat merely brings a yawn, as it rarely accompanies anything constructive.
I notice none of your comments added any sort of substance to the discussion.

What I don't like … a lot... is being asked to put myself out there in good faith, for the sole purpose of it being used as a public castigating. I held my breath as I posted the link of that picture, half-expecting what was coming.
Alas, a floundering public attack, dimwittedly disguised as a defense … This form of "debate" wreaks of school-yard bully tactics at best, and intellectual deficit at worst. I expected more from a somewhat respected (?) member, which influenced my decision to agree to your request for a pic.

Disappointing, as the previous affable discussion with Adair had made me stop and reconsider my thoughts (the value of forums) - I even "liked" his post.

 

[coh]

Disappointing, as the previous affable discussion with Adair had made me stop and reconsider my thoughts (the value of forums) - I even "liked" his post.

You can find plenty of "affable" or good discussion here. However, the chances of having it with the guy you're referring to are slim. I would encourage you to stick around and interact with those who are willing and able to interact on an adult level.

 

[Smoke]

well thanks for posting the tree. I didn’t mean to make you cry... jeesh

You disagreed with Mark and said “bonsai are grown and topiary are cut down”. I asked you to post a tree. You did and the one you posted was chopped down. Is that about the way you see it or you want to make up more BS. You guys on the seeds and cutting side need to clarify your stance on this stuff as it pertains to bonsai. You are arguing scmantics and hiding by a false premise that when growing a seedling you somehow have more control and maybe just maybe think you can have a more blemish free trunk. If that’s not the case then say that. Your cutting seedling premise means nothing other than history.... if you take pictures every year. Otherwise in the end what difference does it make. Bonsai is the ends. The means mean nothing. Unless you just like to play with sticks in pots. I don’t.

 

[Adair M]

Truth doesn't hurt too much. In this case, the semantics tit-for-tat merely brings a yawn, as it rarely accompanies anything constructive.
I notice none of your comments added any sort of substance to the discussion.

What I don't like … a lot... is being asked to put myself out there in good faith, for the sole purpose of it being used as a public castigating. I held my breath as I posted the link of that picture, half-expecting what was coming.
Alas, a floundering public attack, dimwittedly disguised as a defense … This form of "debate" wreaks of school-yard bully tactics at best, and intellectual deficit at worst. I expected more from a somewhat respected (?) member, which influenced my decision to agree to your request for a pic.

Disappointing, as the previous considerate discussion with Adair had made me stop and reconsider my thoughts (the value of forums) - I even "liked" his post.

I rather like your elm! I think it’s very nice, and I would be proud to have it in my collection.

Don’t feel bad if Smoke doesn’t like your tree. He didn’t like mine, either! The tree that is my avatar was on display at the show where I met Al in person. He gave me a critique on the tree, pointed out some things he didn’t like that are just part of the tree and can’t be changed. That tree has been displayed at the US Nationals, and it was given prominent exposure in International Bonsai magazine. So, I guess not everyone shares Smoke’s opinion.

 

[wrcmad]

well thanks for posting the tree. I didn’t mean to make you cry... jeesh

I'm definitely not crying.... more rolling my eyes.
I keep having to remind myself that at least half of the population has below average IQ.

Don’t feel bad if Smoke doesn’t like your tree. He didn’t like mine, either!

All good Adair. I couldn't care less if he liked it or not... it was the intent behind having it posted that was very mediocre.

 

[Smoke]

I'm definitely not crying.... more rolling my eyes.
I keep having to remind myself that at least half of the population has below average IQ.


All good Adair. I couldn't care less if he liked it or not... it was the intent behind having it posted that was very mediocre.

You care. The amount of fuss your making says so.

 

[wrcmad]

You care. The amount of fuss your making says so.

Oh man. You still don't get it. (Or maybe you do but you are still trying to shift focus to that pic again?).
I'm leaving it there, to go and have a more mature discussion with my 10 year old kid. Have a nice day.

 

[Smoke]

I rather like your elm! I think it’s very nice, and I would be proud to have it in my collection.

Don’t feel bad if Smoke doesn’t like your tree. He didn’t like mine, either! The tree that is my avatar was on display at the show where I met Al in person. He gave me a critique on the tree, pointed out some things he didn’t like that are just part of the tree and can’t be changed. That tree has been displayed at the US Nationals, and it was given prominent exposure in International Bonsai magazine. So, I guess not everyone shares Smoke’s opinion.

Post your most recent picture of that tree and I'll see if you changed it. I had no idea how much you thought of my critique of your tree. Thanks...

 

[Underdog]

Another great thread derailed again. WTF
Back to the topic.
The best advice I ever received, not from a bonsai master but an Senior Fireman when I was but a Rookie in the 80s
:"Never argue with and idiot, because a passer-by can't tell who is who"

I seems er can't stay on topic and off each other here? again WTF?

 

[Mike Hennigan]

You guys on the seeds and cutting side need to clarify your stance on this stuff as it pertains to bonsai.

LOL the seeds side... this isn't Star Wars Al, give me a break.

 

[Mike Hennigan]

Unless you just like to play with sticks in pots. I don’t.

I think a lot of bonsai practitioners enjoy watching their trees growing. It's not only just a dick measuring contest for them, or a means to obtain bragging rights and a superiority complex.

 

[Adair M]

Post your most recent picture of that tree and I'll see if you changed it. I had no idea how much you thought of my critique of your tree. Thanks...

Ya can’t tell much about the tree right now, the long needles obscure everything.

The points you made that you didn’t like were the trunk didn’t have any taper from the nebari to the first branch.

The lowest first branch doesn’t really come off the outside of the curve. It comes from the back, and is pulled around to the front.

Those are flaws that simply can’t be changed. I suppose I could graft on a new front branch, but it would be 20 years to grow out.

It was interesting, however, when Bill Valavanis gave a critique of this tree at the Winter Silohette Show several years ago, he called it a “textbook perfect” informal upright! Although, I’ve always considered it a slant. Lol

Recent photo:



Picture taken back in March 2017:

Prior to cutback:



The low right branch:

Photo is taken from the back, so the subject branch is on the left:


You can see the branch is mostly a “back branch”.

I thought about pulling it around more to the front using a jack.

Decided not to.

The solution:

Before:



After:



The branch had simply gotten too long! I’m still using the left part to be the “front” branch, and I used a bit of guy wire attached to the dead stub to pull the sub-branch on the right more towards the front.

The final result:



About 1/2 all the foliage was removed. I didn’t decandle, letting it get strong over the summer. This spring, I’ll return it to its old “everyday” pot, and begin the decandling cycle all over again.

 

[Arcto]

I’m afraid I can’t contribute to this thread unless the title read The Best Advice You Received From Bonsai Masters You’ve Forgotten. Then I could at least say I don’t remember.

 

[Japonicus]

How about this. Does this can't as on topic?
Just One and one half minutes, is the window that represents to date
the best advice I've received, besides watering when needed.

Video starts on point about advice from Mr Masahico Kimura
I cannot provide a stopping point properly with this video only starting point.
Thanks to @sorce for the link

 

[TN_Jim]

so I...shouldn’t grow from seed if....nevermind

 

[TN_Jim]

The means mean nothing. Unless you just like to play with sticks in pots. I don’t.

You should put this on a t-shirt and wear it when you go by fancy trees someone else made

 

[leatherback]

There are a lot of ways to get the benefits of field growing. One way is to grow your tree in a colander with good bonsai soil, and then plant the colander in the ground. After three or four years, pull up the colander, cut off all roots extending outside, and voila! you have a pre-bonsai tree that is planted in good mix!

I use Anderson flats and if leave them sitting on mulch, the tree roots naturally escape out of the bottom of the flat and into the mulch. Same thing - just pull up the flat, cut off any roots escaping out the bottom, and you are well ahead of where you would be if you had planted your tree in the ground directly.