The Conflict: Twin trunk Thuja second styling

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Mike, they can be tricky to manage and all depends on your preference. I like the fronds to be nice a neat. So like John I cut them back but... I do take advantage of their drooping nature and style my pads going downwards instead of upwards. Others let the foliage grow more "naturally". But I think when you have the fronds more tightly managed it imparts the tree with a really nice sense of scale. I love them! One of the very best native species for bonsai in my opinion and they love the cold!

The tree posted by Rafael is a nice piece of material!

Apologies for the momentary highjack! 🙏
Yeah, I like Thuja foliage tight too but since I removed so many branches, and the tree will probably spend the winter under the snow, I didn't want to cut any further. In the spring I plan to adjust further. Any comments on this strategy are welcome. It is one of my favourite species too.
 
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Rafael,

There is a fundamental issue that throws your design off balance, and that is the planting angle. You keep calling it a “mother-daughter” (or father-son) composition, yet the smaller tree is growing on higher ground. The tree on the left needs to be on higher ground than the smaller tree. Shifting the angle so that it is on top of the mound would also bring its apex more on top of the lesser tree.

It should look as if the lesser tree is trying to move out, away from the taller tree. That swooping branch that comes from the top, back, and then comes in between the two to the front is just plain and simply convoluted.

I think an angle change, and some guy wires pulling the two trunks in closer together is a better styling choice. Other than the artificial “swoop”, the movement of the two trunks mirror each other, which is nice. They “complement” each other not “conflict” with each other, except for that “swoop” branch. Direct the movement of the second tree out to the right, out and towards the light, and you’ll have a pleasing composition.
Interesting suggestion that of the change in angle, I will play with it. As I mentioned above, I might separate the two though. The fact that the child trunk is higher is as a result of the roots, something that if I decide to change I will be able next time I repot, which I would be comfortable with it being no earlier than 2021 although Thuja probably can take more severe or frequent root work. I like the convoluted swooping branch.
 

Adair M

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Interesting suggestion that of the change in angle, I will play with it. As I mentioned above, I might separate the two though. The fact that the child trunk is higher is as a result of the roots, something that if I decide to change I will be able next time I repot, which I would be comfortable with it being no earlier than 2021 although Thuja probably can take more severe or frequent root work. I like the convoluted swooping branch.
The thing is, trees extend branches out. Out towards the light. That branch runs back towards the taller tree. Under its canopy. Branches that grow under the canopy of other trees get shaded out and die. They don’t become the strongest, thickest branch on the tree. Especially if they’re growing downwards.

What you’ve made looks artificial and forced. I’m not into the “naturalistic style” a la Walter Pall, and I’m all for artistic freedom. But at the same time, a tree has to be believable. That design, I’m afraid, just isn’t believable.

I wouldn’t separate the two trunks. Like I said, the movement of the two trunks complement each other. Which can make a very pleasing twin trunk composition.

Maybe to get the final style, you might have to do some approach grafts to put branches where you need them. Is that a problem? Creating bonsai takes time. It’s not a “wire it up in an afternoon” process. Ask your buddy, Ryan. How many times he does a bit of work, then has to let the tree recover for 6 months or a year before it’s ready for the next step. Heck, I have a Western Juniper I grafted 6 years ago to change the foliage. It’s just now getting to look like something.

Patience.
 

M. Frary

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I might just do that in the future but unlike how you perhaps cynically suggest, I may cut it perpendicular to the planting plane between the two trunks and separate the conflicting parent and child. I feel each could be a good tree in its own right.
I wasn't trying to be cynical.
But it seems that the quickest way forward would to be to eliminate the odd topped one.,
No waiting for grafts to take and then develop.
Maybe make it a deadwood feature.
A stump of a tree that died from a lightning strike or fire or just up and died.
 
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The thing is, trees extend branches out. Out towards the light. That branch runs back towards the taller tree. Under its canopy. Branches that grow under the canopy of other trees get shaded out and die. They don’t become the strongest, thickest branch on the tree. Especially if they’re growing downwards.

What you’ve made looks artificial and forced. I’m not into the “naturalistic style” a la Walter Pall, and I’m all for artistic freedom. But at the same time, a tree has to be believable. That design, I’m afraid, just isn’t believable.

I wouldn’t separate the two trunks. Like I said, the movement of the two trunks complement each other. Which can make a very pleasing twin trunk composition.

Maybe to get the final style, you might have to do some approach grafts to put branches where you need them. Is that a problem? Creating bonsai takes time. It’s not a “wire it up in an afternoon” process. Ask your buddy, Ryan. How many times he does a bit of work, then has to let the tree recover for 6 months or a year before it’s ready for the next step. Heck, I have a Western Juniper I grafted 6 years ago to change the foliage. It’s just now getting to look like something.

Patience.
I think maybe the video doesn't show it properly but the design is sustainable, there are no branches that are shaded. In any case I am fully aware that creating bonsai takes time, what you describe is exactly what I am doing and mention in the video, I hope you watched it this time around. If eventually I feel that grafting is necessary I will do it, for now it is not even a thought. If we want to create a fake 'origin story' for the swooping branch in the child trunk, one could easily imagine a story in which for some reason the small but more ancient daughter tree gets to grow slower than the now bigger tree we are calling the parent and the swooping branch finds a path to light through the movement it makes to get away from the bigger tree. Anyway, we have clearly completely different tastes in bonsai.
 

Adair M

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I think maybe the video doesn't show it properly but the design is sustainable, there are no branches that are shaded. In any case I am fully aware that creating bonsai takes time, what you describe is exactly what I am doing and mention in the video, I hope you watched it this time around. If eventually I feel that grafting is necessary I will do it, for now it is not even a thought. If we want to create a fake 'origin story' for the swooping branch in the child trunk, one could easily imagine a story in which for some reason the small but more ancient daughter tree gets to grow slower than the now bigger tree we are calling the parent and the swooping branch finds a path to light through the movement it makes to get away from the bigger tree. Anyway, we have clearly completely different tastes in bonsai.
Rafael, I watched the video. I’m not into creating a fake origin story. You, evidently are.

As for taste in bonsai...
 
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Rafael, I watched the video. I’m not into creating a fake origin story. You, evidently are.

As for taste in bonsai...
The level here descends so quickly, doesn't it? I am not into origin stories. Like the design or not, it is sustainable.
 
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Moral of the story: public display of artistic styling (in any medium) isn’t guaranteed to yield positive feedback. Quite the opposite - I would expect critical feedback then use what inspired me and discard the rest.

Regardless, the original post wasn’t clear on what you were attempting to accomplish. Is this show-and-tell or are you asking for advice? It seems advice is popular, so...

I’ll add my potentially unwelcome critique. Balance and synergy are absent. These twin trunks do not have a pleasing relationship. Subsequently, I find this challenging to look at because my eye can’t come to rest. It’s confusing and unresolved. If this is your objective, bravo - it’s quite abstract. If not, you may consider reducing the daughter trunk, changing the planting angle, and/or choosing a new front viewing angle. These are the reasons I think people are reacting the way they are.
 

eryk2kartman

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I would only throw my few cents here.

Not commenting design:)

@Rafael Najmanovich - you should try to practice what you want to say couple of time before you record the video, its hard to watch if you read the text froim behind the camera, its clearly visible and judjing your knowledge. Also i found hard to follow you, please make clear sentence, from start to beginning not just sort of random words.

Im bicycle coach, whatever i say to people it comes from expirience, i dont need to think about it at all, it just a knowledge i have and use in conversation.

Please think about it before you record next video.

Best of Luck!
 
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I would only throw my few cents here.

Not commenting design:)

@Rafael Najmanovich - you should try to practice what you want to say couple of time before you record the video, its hard to watch if you read the text froim behind the camera, its clearly visible and judjing your knowledge. Also i found hard to follow you, please make clear sentence, from start to beginning not just sort of random words.

Im bicycle coach, whatever i say to people it comes from expirience, i dont need to think about it at all, it just a knowledge i have and use in conversation.

Please think about it before you record next video.

Best of Luck!
Thanks for the comments, I am not reading a text. I think in the fertilizer video I had a list of things I didn't want to forget mentioning but otherwise it is unscripted and as I look into infinity I am sort of thinking what I want to say. The presentation definitely needs to improve. I am hoping it will come with time.
 

BobbyLane

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Thanks for the comments, I am not reading a text. I think in the fertilizer video I had a list of things I didn't want to forget mentioning but otherwise it is unscripted and as I look into infinity I am sort of thinking what I want to say. The presentation definitely needs to improve. I am hoping it will come with time.

At least youre trying mate. stick with what youre doing.
 
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