The Five Year "Native Tree, Native Pot" Challenge!

[leatherback]

who are the judges? Who makes the final decision on if the entry fits the rules or not?

I would say.. We are not in highschool, there are no high stake prices involved.. Why not let each person individually decide whether their trees match the criteria.
The aim was to let people think about where the species you commonly see, originate from. Not to enter into lengthy debates pro/con including an individual tree.

 

[Lumaca]

Hmmm I feel like that would disqualify my Rainbow Eucalyptus and Merkus Pine. Maybe I'll just stick with the Agathis and White Benjamina.

 

[LittleDingus]

I would say.. We are not in highschool, there are no high stake prices involved.. Why not let each person individually decide whether their trees match the criteria.
The aim was to let people think about where the species you commonly see, originate from. Not to enter into lengthy debates pro/con including an individual tree.

Yeah, I'm not trying to "cheat" the rules...I don't think anyone is. What's the point?

I did discard a number of species I thought for sure were native but are merely common to my area. I might grow them anyway.

Personally, I'm approaching this challenge as a reason to be more deliberate in my growing. My general approach is very laxidasical. I germinate what I can, the youngest specimen I can for what I fail or lack the patience to germinate. Then I watch them grow until they are too big to be practical. Then I sorta kinda bonsai them.

I almost never consider how easy it will be to grow a species here. If I like it and can morally source it as seed or young plant, I give it a try FOr this challenge, I have focused more on what trees are appropriate to grown in my area. I also intend to be much more aggressive in pushing them in the direction I want them to go...usually I just let the tree do its own thing.

So, yeah, I'm gaining lots of knowledge and insights that I normally wouldn't have bother with because of this challenge. Because I am being more deliberate and aggressive, I'm sure I'll end up with more dead trees! But I seriously doubt I'll be anywhere near gaining a jackpot of fake internet points...I'm just not that good at the "art" side of this.

 

[LittleDingus]

Hmmm I feel like that would disqualify my Rainbow Eucalyptus and Merkus Pine. Maybe I'll just stick with the Agathis and White Benjamina.

Dang it! I would love to see the delgupta! I have a half dozen young-uns myself. They are only 1-2cm thick, but they have an annoying habit of swoopy branches and forming T bars that I'd like to see how you'd deal with. Maybe you'll grow them and start a thread in another section of the forum anyway??

 

[leatherback]

start a thread in another section of the forum anyway??

thats what I was thinking!

 

[Krone]

I'm in also.

 

[DirkvanDreven]

I'm in with a airlayered Ulmus Glabra, better known as Ruwe Iep. A native treespecies that suffered badly from Elm disease. I hope that entering this challenge will motivate me enough to finally work this tree.

 

[Starfox]

I wasn't going to enter but I have literally had a windfall of free seeds of what is the only real local species that piques my interest so I'm in.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

First...I live in Missouri, not Kansas. I've updated my location to specify KCM instead of KCK though, as far as climate, geographical location, nearest population center, etc...the two are functionally one. It's just a political boundary.

Second, I don't actually live in Kansas City, MO, but, rather, one of it's suburbs. People recognize Kansas City far more than they recognize my suburb so I list the nearest population center rather than which side of an imaginary line I live on

Third, I've already started a thread on those plants:

5yr Native Tree Challenge - Dingus's ilex verticillata (Winter Berry)

This thread will track my efforts at ilex verticillata over the next 5 years...or until I kill the trees...whichever comes first! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilex_verticillata At the time of joining this challenge, I lived in Missouri just outside of Kansas City. According to my best...

www.bonsainut.com

where I do explicitly state that

"According to my best estimates, the nearest native range of winter berry is approximately 213 miles as the crow flies...so technically just outside of the contest rules by 13 miles. I'm gonna call it good...I'm not winning any prizes with my ameturish efforts "

I honestly only entered it because I can't source decidua except as whips and won't collect one and that, by the end of the contest, I'm very likely to live in a part of Illinois where verticillata is also native so figured it was close enough on this end and firmly within range at the other end so why not.

But, if people want that entry out...no skin off my back. I'm not in need of fake internet points



Some sources claim the native range follows the Missouri river to within about 100 miles of where I live. Others...in fact most...sources put the nearest native extent at about 250 miles as the crow flies from my house. I had plans for some from seed plants starting in the spring anyway so I was thinking of entering it...but I probably won't now to avoid the fuss.

Of the rest, the most common native range maps indicate their extents are within 50-100 miles of my location. ALL of those species except ilex verticillata are sold by the Missouri Department of Conservation as "native species".

MDC Tree Seedling

Somewhere in one of these posts I had asked about what "native" really means because some of the species the Department of Conservation sells as "native" are not. The specific example I brought up was osage orange. Osage orange is a defining tree of the region and many consider it "native", but it is not. It was brought west by ranchers. It's "pre-human" native range is limited to parts of Arkansas and Texas and well outside 200 miles

But, now that the question has been raised and an entry has been challenged, who are the judges? Who makes the final decision on if the entry fits the rules or not? Do I take down my existing entry because it doesn't quite meet the 200 mile restriction? Should I even bother submitting more entries without getting them cleared first?

@zanduh - is the "official arbiter of what is in and what is out. I waded into your list because you asked if they were a mistake. And my response was that it was a mostly "good" list. All have a track record of making good bonsai. I happened to be "killing time" when I looked up ranges for the species in your list. Definitely, in my book, if Ilex verticillata is native only 213 miles from your house, that is "close enough for folk" in my book. I did not measure the miles from KC-MO. I drove the distance once, and in my mind it seemed KC was a long, long way from Saint Louis. I had assumed the distance was over 300 miles. But you actually looked into it. I'd say it counts. You mentioned Ilex decidua, I had assumed you had a good source for that one. But go with Ilex verticillata if you can better material. It makes an excellent bonsai. The attached photo is an Ilex verticillata originally owned and styled by Jack Douthitt, now part of the Milwaukee Bonsai Foundation permanent bonsai collection housed at the Lynden Sculpture Garden. I do know that the example I posted is not something that can be done in "only 5 years", it is a truly exceptional and old specimen.


Since you are in Missouri - Pinus echinata is definitely listed as native, and much more likely to be within the 200 mile radius of your location. It is the most unusual, and interesting species you listed. Definitely, if you have a source, get one or more to experiment with.

I wasn't trying to rain on your parade. I found your list interesting, so I looked into it.
And

 

[LittleDingus]

I waded into your list because you asked if they were a mistake. And my response was that it was a mostly "good" list.

Ah! That's where it went wrong! I wasn't meaning to ask if the list was a mistake. I was implying my care and attempts at "bonsai" will be riddled with mistakes and thus, a good negative example for others

For example...I've pretty much butchered by rhus aromatica already trying to repot it just as it was going dormant and loosing all its foliage. But, if only 5 years, we gotta push a few boundaries!

I find a lot of anecdotal evidence on this site about what not to do, but examples of why are hard to find. That's understandable. People generally don't shout out their mistakes. There are a lot of abandoned progressions where it's not clear what happened as a result of the last action. Sometimes people ask and get a response but sometimes not.

To me, it's equally, if not more valuable when I ask why not start an oak from acorn to see what someone who did it went through and the results they obtained rather than just "don't do that...takes to long". That's an unsatisfactory answer for me so I usually end up trying it anyway I just started some quercus muehlenbergii this past weekend that are native to here that I'll start a thread on. Will I get something notable? Not likely. But hopefully there will be a thread and when people say "don't do that" they can say "...and here's why"

I wasn't trying to rain on your parade. I found your list interesting, so I looked into it.

It's all good These sorts of contests are really difficult to deal with. I'll be curious to see how many entries are lost each year do to various kinds of attrition: people losing interest, trees dying, etc...

 

[zanduh]

Not my main submission, still waiting on that, but American sweetgum is native here so this was my spontaneous purchase. One day, 50 years from now, this will be a respectable mame!

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

@zanduh
I am asking for a ruling. I purchased this Thuja occidentalis in summer 2019. The seller was collecting trees for the purpose of bonsai, but he claims to have done no work on it as it needed to develop roots. I have done zero work on it, as it was collected early spring 2019, and needs a couple years to get its new root system established. It was collected more than 200 miles away from my house, but the species is native to a wide area that includes near my home and where the farm is. Key is I have not pruned a single twig off this tree yet.

Will this tree qualify for the contest? Or should I look for something else?

 

[zanduh]

@zanduh
I am asking for a ruling. I purchased this Thuja occidentalis in summer 2019. The seller was collecting trees for the purpose of bonsai, but he claims to have done no work on it as it needed to develop roots. I have done zero work on it, as it was collected early spring 2019, and needs a couple years to get its new root system established. It was collected more than 200 miles away from my house, but the species is native to a wide area that includes near my home and where the farm is. Key is I have not pruned a single twig off this tree yet.

Will this tree qualify for the contest? Or should I look for something else?

In my infinite and unquestionable wisdom, I decree that this passes! Go forth and plant my words so that yee too shall cultivate the bonsai of the mind!

Yeah you're good

 

[Crawforde]

I’m in
I’ll do a mulberry, a swamp maple, a live oak, a long-leaf pine, and a green ash.
There is a chance I might try to join in with the cool kids and enter an ericaceous plant as well, since ya know, they are named after me.

 

[Cypress187]

You are allowed to make your own pot

I don't really have much money for a pot, I have clay. How durable must it be

 

[zanduh]

I don't really have much money for a pot, I have clay. How durable must it be

Haha no one is going to your house to do a porosity test. Don’t stress it

 

[leatherback]

Haha no one is going to your house to do a porosity test. Don’t stress it

so basically you are saying: Make a pot-shape from clay. Dump the tree in. Take a picture. Put the tree back in the trainer pot?

 

[zanduh]

so basically you are saying: Make a pot-shape from clay. Dump the tree in. Take a picture. Put the tree back in the trainer pot?

I personally have already been looking for rentable kilns so that I can learn over the next 5 years how to make a pot I would be proud to put my trees in

But if you want to pour a concrete pot like the Sorce method that’s fine too as long as you put effort.

 

[leatherback]

a concrete pot

Guess I could make another few.
This was my last cement pot, made 2 years ago or so. Planting not mine.
pot

 

[Kanorin]

I'll start some threads up in the next few weeks and months, but here's what I've got cooking.

Acer rubrum, seedadori (locally collected seeds 2020)
Ulmus americana, collected from neighbor's garage gutter
Cercis canadensis, collected from my in-law's backyard
Pinus echinata, (forest planting, maybe individual too) arriving next spring - ordering from missouri dept of conservation
Prunus americana, arriving next spring - ordering from missouri dept of conservation

Big thanks to @zanduh for getting this contest rolling! I'm gonna have some fun with it.