The Identification Thread....perhaps?

[Woocash]

Hi guys. Need an ID for your tree? I know I do. Fed up of recurring ID threads popping up, clogging up YOUR homepage? #Metoo.

Well, fret no more. If you need something identifying post it here and maybe some kindly person will come along to assist you and your curious mind. People do love to solve a mystery!

I’ll start

Please identify this Penstemon for me. Sorry...Pinestemon. Picked up at a garden centre, obviously labelled wrong but I paid a tenner so not bad I’d say. I think it’s possibly a Mugo of some sort, but I’m a complete novice with pines. It has 2 needles in a cluster. Thanks.


Label - doh! One of this year’s candles. Couple of baby cones. New roots leaving a cavern in the pot. Mmmmmycorrhizae.

Please feel free to post anything which you need identifying. I can only speak for myself in terms of willingness to assist, but people are generally pretty helpful round these here parts.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Yes, it is some sort of pine. The immature cones could be right for mugo.

Next.

 

[M. Frary]

FOEMINA!

 

[HorseloverFat]

I like this idea!

(and am going to “steal” aspects of it to create something KIND of like this.. but in a different direction)

 

[Shibui]

That pot has already done some service. I guess the label refers to the previous occupant. Some of my pots have had several different residents and have similar label history.
The short needles does and long growth does look like P. mugho but I think there may also be some short needle scots varieties? Both are single flush species that back bud readily so care is basically similar.

 

[Woocash]

That pot has already done some service. I guess the label refers to the previous occupant. Some of my pots have had several different residents and have similar label history.
The short needles does and long growth does look like P. mugho but I think there may also be some short needle scots varieties? Both are single flush species that back bud readily so care is basically similar.

Yes I‘m guessing the old pot broke and they just shoved it in what was first to hand. I’m glad it was a penstemon‘s old vessel anyway, saved me a few quid! Thanks for that. There are a few short needled Scots that I’ve seen, but they are nearly always grafted and I haven’t dug down to the roots yet but I think it’s not been grafted, we’ll see. I’ll get into the Mugo care guide in the resources and go from there I reckon.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

That pot has already done some service. I guess the label refers to the previous occupant. Some of my pots have had several different residents and have similar label history.
The short needles does and long growth does look like P. mugho but I think there may also be some short needle scots varieties? Both are single flush species that back bud readily so care is basically similar.

It looks like a Pinus mugo pumillo to me, those have a shrub like growth habit with a lot of low branches that all grow upwards.
Pinus mugo mughus is a lower alpine variety that has a more upright christmas tree growth habit. The pumillo grows exactly like the picture shown, from a very young age.
Basically one can tell the difference from where the branches start: if they all seem to start from the base with a few side-shoots on the apex, then it's likely a pumillo. If it branches all over 1-3 main trunks not starting at the base, then it's likely a mughus. The older they get, the harder they are to distinguish. The one pictured is right at that cross road, give it four more years and it'll be hard to tell the difference.
Pumillo, when in poor soil and less-than-ideal conditions, can produce tiny needles (1.5-3cm) with a somewhat rounded tip and a clear vertical indentation on every needle. Mughus can do the same, but the needles stay softer and are somewhat pointier. I haven't seen indentations on those. They seem to be less tough than pumillo.

Pumillo is the most sold garden variety of pines in Europe. They're cheaper than a six pack of coca cola. Mughus used to be widely available but nowadays it's less common.

Scots pines can have short needles, but never this 'shrubby' growth habit. Scots pine also tends to have flaky bark on trunks and branches of a certain age, roughly 6 years and up, while P. mugo hardly produces mostly smooth bark when it's planted in the ground.
I'm not aware of existing shrub-like cultivars of scots pine. All cultivars I know have a christmas tree shape.

 

[Woocash]

Yes, it is some sort of pine. The immature cones could be right for mugo.

Next.

Cheers Leo. I’m sure I can muster up some more bargain basement oddities to decipher before too long.

 

[Woocash]

It looks like a Pinus mugo pumillo to me, those have a shrub like growth habit with a lot of low branches that all grow upwards.
Pinus mugo mughus is a lower alpine variety that has a more upright christmas tree growth habit. The pumillo grows exactly like the picture shown, from a very young age.
Basically one can tell the difference from where the branches start: if they all seem to start from the base with a few side-shoots on the apex, then it's likely a pumillo. If it branches all over 1-3 main trunks not starting at the base, then it's likely a mughus. The older they get, the harder they are to distinguish. The one pictured is right at that cross road, give it four more years and it'll be hard to tell the difference.
Pumillo, when in poor soil and less-than-ideal conditions, can produce tiny needles (1.5-3cm) with a somewhat rounded tip and a clear vertical indentation on every needle. Mughus can do the same, but the needles stay softer and are somewhat pointier. I haven't seen indentations on those. They seem to be less tough than pumillo.

Pumillo is the most sold garden variety of pines in Europe. They're cheaper than a six pack of coca cola. Mughus used to be widely available but nowadays it's less common.

Scots pines can have short needles, but never this 'shrubby' growth habit. Scots pine also tends to have flaky bark on trunks and branches of a certain age, roughly 6 years and up, while P. mugo hardly produces mostly smooth bark when it's planted in the ground.
I'm not aware of existing shrub-like cultivars of scots pine. All cultivars I know have a christmas tree shape.

Thanks Guy wires. I did think this might be the case TBH, though hoping possibly for something else because of the lack of bonsai examples. I’ve got a multi trunk plan for it though, it seems to have some age to it already and has a good basis to work with. It’ll teach me about single flush pines if nothing else.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Thanks Guy wires. I did think this might be the case TBH, though hoping possibly for something else because of the lack of bonsai examples. I’ve got a multi trunk plan for it though, it seems to have some age to it already and has a good basis to work with. It’ll teach me about single flush pines if nothing else.

Well, it's only the cultivar. The genetic basis is still mugo and it'll respond as any other. I found pumillo to be a bit more flexible and a bit more forgiving than the mughus.
I have three of them in pots for two years now, two of which will be multi trunk specimens. The other one I cut back to the base to leave a single trunk and it behaves just like my mughus cultivar. They all have a tendency to get huge aphid infestations every year. So keep an eye out for fat black aphids in between the needles. Those hide themselves pretty well.

 

[Woocash]

Well, it's only the cultivar. The genetic basis is still mugo and it'll respond as any other. I found pumillo to be a bit more flexible and a bit more forgiving than the mughus.
I have three of them in pots for two years now, two of which will be multi trunk specimens. The other one I cut back to the base to leave a single trunk and it behaves just like my mughus cultivar. They all have a tendency to get huge aphid infestations every year. So keep an eye out for fat black aphids in between the needles. Those hide themselves pretty well.

Awesome, well not awesome, but I’ll keep an eye out. We get tons of oil seed rape growing ”wild” around here and it’s full of black aphids right now so that doesn’t bode well. Thanks for the heads up.

Harry Harrington says on his site that mugos will put out a second flush if pruned around now to august, yet they are known as a single flush pine and the compiled Vance Wood info in resources suggests that much. This is down right confusing. Does the candling just simply set buds for next year and induce back budding or does it encourage a second flush as well?

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Awesome, well not awesome, but I’ll keep an eye out. We get tons of oil seed rape growing ”wild” around here and it’s full of black aphids right now so that doesn’t bode well. Thanks for the heads up.

Harry Harrington says on his site that mugos will put out a second flush if pruned around now to august, yet they are known as a single flush pine and the compiled Vance Wood info in resources suggests that much. This is down right confusing. Does the candling just simply set buds for next year and induce back budding or does it encourage a second flush as well?

I have one mugo that flushes all year round. I don't know why and I don't know how, but it just never rests. It's been like that for three years now.
I know that scots pine can double flush if you cut the candles back as soon as they've hardened off, roughly at the start of june. I think mugo can have the same response. But.. On the long run it doesn't seem to give any advantage other than short internodes and possibly juvenile foliage (which sucks). I've heard people say it's a tree wasting its energy. I'm aiming for cutbacks on July 15th or later to avoid a second flush but to hopefully get some more back budding.
In the past I've cut shoots in half, back to five to eight pairs of needles. When done early, it produces a second flush and very little back budding. When done later in the season it seems to induce regular budding on the tips only.
I'm cutting them off entirely this year with backbudding as the goal.

Summarized: I have yet to find out what the best way of lateral bud induction is for single flush European pines. I hope to know by the end of this year.

 

[KillerButts]

Not kudzu but close? Can anyone help? It’s near my sisters place and taking a few trees nearby. The leafs are 5-8” and it’s climbing 30’ no problem.

 

[Woocash]

Not kudzu but close? Can anyone help? It’s near my sisters place and taking a few trees nearby. The leafs are 5-8” and it’s climbing 30’ no problem.

Hey! You get it

I’m not particularly up on my American vines, but I ran it through an ID app and it suggested Fox Grape, Vitis Labrusca. Any signs of fruiting? I had no idea that various wine grape varieties were bred from this species, but might be a good find.

I ran it through a couple of times with two pictures and this is what it came up with both times. The app is not fool proof though so could be completely wrong. It also suggested bur cucumber and english ivy as secondary options. I know it’s not the ivy.

 

[Clorgan]

Saw this tree up north on my mini vacation, stupidly I didn't take a photo of the leaves! Anyone know what it is?

Beech maybe? (I have no idea tbh)

 

[BobbyLane]

Saw this tree up north on my mini vacation, stupidly I didn't take a photo of the leaves! Anyone know what it is?

Beech maybe? (I have no idea tbh)

birch

 

[Clorgan]

birch

Thank you!

 

[Vance Wood]

Well, it's only the cultivar. The genetic basis is still mugo and it'll respond as any other. I found pumillo to be a bit more flexible and a bit more forgiving than the mughus.
I have three of them in pots for two years now, two of which will be multi trunk specimens. The other one I cut back to the base to leave a single trunk and it behaves just like my mughus cultivar. They all have a tendency to get huge aphid infestations every year. So keep an eye out for fat black aphids in between the needles. Those hide themselves pretty well.

Look for the parade of ants running through the branches, this is the easiest way to tell you have an aphid problem, however: scale is a bigger problem and much more difficult to eliminate.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Look for the parade of ants running through the branches, this is the easiest way to tell you have an aphid problem, however: scale is a bigger problem and much more difficult to eliminate.

Scale? I don't think I've ever heard a case of pine scale in Europe. As far as I can find they're a US thing only. Wooly aphids are my worst pest, since all systemics that kill them are illegal.
The ants over here build nice structures out of sand for the aphids, which makes them easy to spot if they're on trunks. In between needles they're harder to find.

 

[Forsoothe!]

Scale? I don't think I've ever heard a case of pine scale in Europe. As far as I can find they're a US thing only. Wooly aphids are my worst pest, since all systemics that kill them are illegal.
The ants over here build nice structures out of sand for the aphids, which makes them easy to spot if they're on trunks. In between needles they're harder to find.

How long have you had that ban? What do the experts think the ultimate result will be? Pests that can't be killed don't just pack up and leave town, they take over the town.