The One Thousandeth and One Fert Post

Frozentreehugger

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Smaller solar panels are limited to around 13-14V so can't overcharge a 12 V auto battery - 12 v Lead acid battery charges to 13.2V at full charge. Smaller panels can be connected direct and left in place without damage. Just check the ratings and intended purpose before purchase and connecting to the battery. Look specifically for panels suited to maintenance charge a car battery.

Larger format panels have higher output, enough to cook a battery if left connected. Solar charge controllers are available that limit the charge as the battery approaches capacity to prevent damage to the battery. Simply connect between the panel and battery terminals.

12 volt RV pumps are notoriously expensive and unreliable. Smaller inverters to convert 12V Dc to mains AC power are now quite cheap and becoming more available. Could be more reliable and economic to add an inverter and run a mains power pump. For any solar instillation you need to calculate power out V power in to pick a suitable sized battery and solar charge panel.

Just be careful with mains voltage around water.
Yes and no personally I would not go to elaborate with solar as I said small panel will not overcharge a battery you have to get above 15 v to do that more likely you will have to supplement the 12 v batt with a charge once and awhile . Keep it simple I disagree that RV water pumps are expensive and un reliable . About 50 to 150 $ seen them as cheap as 29.99 but you get what you pay for . As long as you don’t pump dirt and don’t let it freeze very durable . ( if you have trouble with a RV reliability almost always wiring or control of the pump notoriously un reliable ) going to be cheaper simpler then a inverter and a house pump and the inverter will need to be protected from weather and not get it wet . Plus will draw power just to run it But you are correct otherwise . If you have access to house electrical could be as simple as drop a submersible. Pump in a water container . All depends on power supply and how elaborate you want to get
 

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I would generally agree, but sometimes that's not an option, and you'd lose the mobility, which may be an important motivator behind the idea.

I wouldn’t have thought of a 55 gallon drum filled with water as portable.

As for placing it up high, I don’t see a need to place it higher than you’d hold a watering can. The low water pressure and high volume of flow would be perfect for drenching pots without washing away soil. Just put it at the same height as your tallest bonsai bench. Heck, put it on your tallest bonsai bench. Set a trailing plant on the lid to dress up the barrel a bit.
 

Frozentreehugger

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I would generally agree, but sometimes that's not an option, and you'd lose the mobility, which may be an important motivator behind the idea.
All depends on goals and partly who we are . Gravity system might be a great way to fert with a slow drip system . For me I’m a car tech . So easy to get battery free ( modern cars are very demanding on batteries due to amount of electronics ) so batteries that need to be replaced on a car are perfectly functional for something like this . If I had to purchase I would use a deep cycle marine /rv battery if you need portable it’s a option . If you have access to house current use that . Multiple pump options ( super cheap a pump out of a old washing machine or dish whaler could work ) point is very easy to build a system to suit your needs
 

ShadyStump

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I wouldn’t have thought of a 55 gallon drum filled with water as portable.

As for placing it up high, I don’t see a need to place it higher than you’d hold a watering can. The low water pressure and high volume of flow would be perfect for drenching pots without washing away soil. Just put it at the same height as your tallest bonsai bench. Heck, put it on your tallest bonsai bench. Set a trailing plant on the lid to dress up the barrel a bit.
I meant that sometimes you have to put a rain barrel where the rain collects, and that might not be the same place that suits your watering needs. So a mobile system would make sense in some situations, especially if, like @Frozentreehugger just said, you have unfettered access to the resources to build it.

If it were at my home, I have to have my rain barrel on the ground because of the way the rain gutters are set up, and I'm broke so electric pumps only add to my expenses, but windy days are common, so I would build a windmill pump to lift the water to a tower, then gravity feed it through a drip system. I could cobble together the whole project from junk and thrift store finds for half the initial cost and no residual cost of an electric system.
 

Frozentreehugger

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I wouldn’t have thought of a 55 gallon drum filled with water as portable.

As for placing it up high, I don’t see a need to place it higher than you’d hold a watering can. The low water pressure and high volume of flow would be perfect for drenching pots without washing away soil. Just put it at the same height as your tallest bonsai bench. Heck, put it on your tallest bonsai bench. Set a trailing plant on the lid to dress up the barrel a bit.
Water weighs 10 pounds a imp gallon So no it’s not light . A friend made a drip system so he could go to the cottage for several days . His experiment needed to raise the barrel about 10 feet to bottom of barrel to get enough pressure to have multiple drip emitters function correctly at reduced rates . Once he had it sorted out he even used it to go on vacation . Just get a friend to fill the barrel safer than teaching them to water and or worry about power failure with a timed system using house water
 

Gabler

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Water weighs 10 pounds a imp gallon So no it’s not light . A friend made a drip system so he could go to the cottage for several days . His experiment needed to raise the barrel about 10 feet to bottom of barrel to get enough pressure to have multiple drip emitters function correctly at reduced rates . Once he had it sorted out he even used it to go on vacation . Just get a friend to fill the barrel safer than teaching them to water and or worry about power failure with a timed system using house water

A drip system would definitely require more water pressure to get an even flow from all the nozzles. Ten feet sounds about right.
 

SerSwanky

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Oh wow this thread really blew up. Great info everyone, I learned a lot.

Since we are on the topic, another question regarding fertilizing, how soon after repotting/root pruning would you start fertilizing? Does the fertilizer harm the plant if it's in shock and in recovery mode? Is there a period of time needed to wait before fertilizing?
 
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Frozentreehugger

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Oh wow this thread really blew up. Great info everyone, I learned a lot.

Since we are on the topic, another question regarding fertilizing, how soon after repotting/root pruning would you start fertilizing? Does the fertilizer harm the plant if it's in shock and in recovery mode? Is there a period of time needed to wait before fertilizing?
Like everything else no cut and dry answer depends on level of refinement age if tree and species. As a general rule you want to see healthy growth before fert deciduous. Respond faster after repot then conifers As a rule I start with weaker dose after repot see how it responds . But a healthy tree say 4 weeks as a good start point . I tend to be very patient and slow with a wild collected tree gets nothing for first year min . But push it fairly hard after repot . Up hear we have a shorter grow season . So say young deciduous in training 2 weeks about as short as I have ever gone
 

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I've been using Dyna-Pro Bonsai. It's liquid and contains all the nutrients needed. I've been switching off watering with and without fert and apply it diluted to 1/4 teaspoon per gallon. Added benefit is it has no smell. I don;t believe I saw Dyna-Pro mentioned here. What's been the experience with this fert? I know some here swear by it.
 

Scorpius

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I've been using Dyna-Pro Bonsai. It's liquid and contains all the nutrients needed. I've been switching off watering with and without fert and apply it diluted to 1/4 teaspoon per gallon. Added benefit is it has no smell. I don;t believe I saw Dyna-Pro mentioned here. What's been the experience with this fert? I know some here swear by it.
Used Dynagro last year along with Jacks. So no difference between the two. Jacks is cheaper so that's what I use now.
 

SerSwanky

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7 days of dilute fertilizer, one or 2 days of clear water flush, return to dilute fertilizer. Actually, to keep from making myself crazy, 5 or 6 days fertilizer, one or 2 of clear water. I usually do 2 days clear water. That's enough. Most nutrients are highly water soluble, 2 days is enough for the trees to dump excesses.

But make your schedule a 7 day schedule, then you don't have to keep notes on a calendar
I went and picked up some osmocote plus for the “minor” elements I was told I need that the miracle gro won’t provide. What’s the strategy to utilize both? Can I use both at the same time? Would I just half the dosage of each or something along those lines to dilute each so it doesn’t overfertilize?

and if you did add the tea bags of osmocote would you remove them when you needed to water/flush regularly and put them back in?
 
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Leo in N E Illinois

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I went and picked up some osmocote plus for the “minor” elements I was told I need that the miracle gro won’t provide. What’s the strategy to utilize both? Can I use both at the same time? Would I just half the dosage of each or something along those lines to dilute each so it doesn’t overfertilize?

and if you did add the tea bags of osmocote would you remove them when you needed to water/flush regularly and put them back in?

Yes - half and half

you more or less answered your own questions. In part it depends on what you are raising. Putting the Osmocote in bags does allow you to remove them for the "clear water flush". And to remove them for "treatments", for example, the 6 to 8 weeks that a JBP is doing its second flush.

if you are raising Japanese black pines, you fertilize heavily in early spring, remove fertilizer a week or two before cutting candles, cut candles roughly 90 to100 days before your average first frost, resume fertilizing after new second flush of candles has mostly hardened off.

Maples, only clear water spring into early summer, then moderate fertilizer rest of summer and autumn. Similar with most deciduous.

Seedlings where rapid development is wanted - moderate to heavy fertilizer year round.

So you see, unlike orchid people, you don't fertilize everything, all the time.

In order to keep internodes short, fertilizer is withheld in spring from many species, if not most species. But fertilizer is put on usually beginning after summer solstice, after the spring growth has slowed and hardened off. And there are many individual exceptions.
 

BrianBay9

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I use Osmocote Plus in tea bags and remove them when it gets above 90 degrees.

I haven't seen 90 F since I moved here. Osmocote is perfect for me.

My major consideration is fertilizers with nitrogen as ammonia rather than urea. Urea needs to be broken down by microbes in the soil. That takes time. We water every day and the flushes out the urea before it can be converted. So....prefer ammonia or nitrates, not urea.
 

Gabler

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My major consideration is fertilizers with nitrogen as ammonia rather than urea. Urea needs to be broken down by microbes in the soil. That takes time. We water every day and the flushes out the urea before it can be converted. So....prefer ammonia or nitrates, not urea.

Wouldn’t that make it the perfect all-around fertilizer? For trees in development, you have mostly organic soil in larger, deeper pots, and that’ll hold the urea long enough for the tree to access it. For trees in refinement, it’ll wash out of the pumice/lava/akadama mixture, lowering the overall dose, but still providing a little bit of nitrogen for healthy but less vigorous new growth.
 

BrianBay9

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Wouldn’t that make it the perfect all-around fertilizer? For trees in development, you have mostly organic soil in larger, deeper pots, and that’ll hold the urea long enough for the tree to access it. For trees in refinement, it’ll wash out of the pumice/lava/akadama mixture, lowering the overall dose, but still providing a little bit of nitrogen for healthy but less vigorous new growth.

Well, I use almost 100% inorganics for everything, so......no urea for me.
 

SerSwanky

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Yes - half and half

you more or less answered your own questions. In part it depends on what you are raising. Putting the Osmocote in bags does allow you to remove them for the "clear water flush". And to remove them for "treatments", for example, the 6 to 8 weeks that a JBP is doing its second flush.

if you are raising Japanese black pines, you fertilize heavily in early spring, remove fertilizer a week or two before cutting candles, cut candles roughly 90 to100 days before your average first frost, resume fertilizing after new second flush of candles has mostly hardened off.

Maples, only clear water spring into early summer, then moderate fertilizer rest of summer and autumn. Similar with most deciduous.

Seedlings where rapid development is wanted - moderate to heavy fertilizer year round.

So you see, unlike orchid people, you don't fertilize everything, all the time.

In order to keep internodes short, fertilizer is withheld in spring from many species, if not most species. But fertilizer is put on usually beginning after summer solstice, after the spring growth has slowed and hardened off. And there are many individual exceptions.

Perfect, I just wanted to make sure my logic got the stamp of approval before writing a book and becoming wildly successful!
 
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