The original use of tree Penjing /Bonsai - anyone thought about this ?

[Anthony]

In the ancient days of China, the very wealthy would retire away from Governmant jobs [ or just be a hermit ] in the usually Southern Mountains of China. Actually the pension was large and there were no minimum wages, work for me or die of cold and starvation.

Anyhow, most the of retirees were Intellectuals, passing exams to get their positions. Men of letters, masters of calligraphy/ink painting, poetry, and had hobbies to increase the imagination.

Hobbies such as Scholar stones, or collected trees. You could contemplate, and the mind would wonder and the ability to invent increases.

So it didn't matter if the tree outgrew the design, you just went with the flow. Things to show other scholars, but not an attempt at an art form.

Today, some attempt tree sculpture as art. BUT there are are problems, the tree will outgrow the design and you have to re-do sometimes every 3 to 5 years, or attempt to find ways with ever thickening branches and so on, to keep the design.
Plus the boredom that comes with something frozen in time - same -same , might as well be freeze dried.
Apart from displays now and then, no way [ or reason?] to keep the effort together.
Can be frustrating, especially if you never studied design.

As design goes, it has to be studied, natural ability will only go so far, before you end up re-inventing the wheel.
BUT tree-sculpture is a hobby and how do you justify hours of training in design ?
So much money and time spend on a somewhat Sisyphusian task ?

What happens when you end up some x years down the road and your designs are weak and those that did design, look down on you ?

Boggles the mind.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[GrimLore]

In Japanese culture "Wabi-sabi nurtures all that is authentic by acknowledging three simple realities: nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect." Quoted from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabi-sabi. That being said it is my approach and will remain so, un-cluttered and an experience... Not a hobby or competition. I do this for myself and enjoy

Grimmy

 

[Cadillactaste]

Deep words Anthony...never seen it from that perspective.

 

[catfish chapstick]

We don't all agree on what a strong design is. What is considered good in art or design often changes over time and becomes relevant to the time. Study the history of design and this is noticeable.

If you grow trees for fifty years and have no masterpiece to show for it, was it a waste? I personally don't think so. If you don't find bonsai intrinsically rewarding then why do it. Some may grow a masterpiece or two, some may not. Bonsai for bonsai sake, know what I mean?

 

[Poink88]

What happens when you end up some x years down the road and your designs are weak and those that did design, look down on you ?

I do this hobby for me. I'll just let them...they can enjoy the view of my bald head and me, I'll look up their ugly snotty nose holes and sneaker. LOL

 

[Anthony]

Grimmy,
[ said in a small, quiet voice ]

this bit came from the IBC a while ago.

Wabi/Sabi- what poor folk make up to justify the fact that they have little and it will remains so.
It is something that was mentioned by Japanese Architects back in the 1960's or so.
Strangely enough, it is something mentioned by poor folk on doen on my side, just not called wabi-sabi.

"Be content with your lot in life"
[ I am a man of ambition so this does not work for me at all.]

What it has evolved into in the West as expressed all over the Internet is something else.

I look at the tiny backyards of some Japanese homes, and say to myself, I prefer the Chinese larger backyards.
To see the world in a grain of sand and all that.

I tend more to the contemplation part, as my grandfather was a many of few words, but powerful memories.
Good Day
Anthony

* He also spoke very little English - chuckle.

 

[Poink88]

BTW, here is when proper (phase specific) soil mix and fertilizing comes in. You want to keep the tree healthy but retard growth to almost suspended animation (stasis). Once it is totally off then re-build. Just comes with the territory.

 

[Anthony]

Darlene,

I try to unravel a lot of Eastern philiosphy, before it takes root in Westrn minds, because very often it isn't quite correct.

Years ago it was believed that the Chinese just sat with a blank silk roll and took up ink brush and went at it.
A scholar by the name of James Cahill, spilt the beans, they did preparatory sketches, and on the blank roll as well.

As time goes by, much of the Chinese ideas/philosophies, are also mirrored in old Western Europe sayings, just most folk don't read that deeply.
So it all looks new and exotic.
Yes, folks I did History and Literature in another life-chuckle.
This is why I keep on reading today.

Dario,
talk to me in 30 years, bald pate, to bald pate. Ha ha.

Catfish, Uncle K as a Fine Artist, would be someone better able to discuss such situations, as I am not an artist, nor able to draw a straight line [ save with lots of chicken scratch ] frehand.
My handwriting is almost illegible, do you know what my drawings would look like - yuck!!
Good Day
Anthony

 

[DougB]

It is a wonderful contemplative journey without a destination.

 

[coh]

... I am not an artist, nor able to draw a straight line [ save with lots of chicken scratch ] frehand.
My handwriting is almost illegible, do you know what my drawings would look like - yuck!!
Good Day
Anthony

It might surprise you to find out that many successful artists have difficulty with simple tasks such as drawing a straight line (or a perfect circle free hand, etc). It's not cheating to use a ruler! Or whatever tool is required.

Chris

 

[Eric Group]

It might surprise you to find out that many successful artists have difficulty with simple tasks such as drawing a straight line (or a perfect circle free hand, etc). It's not cheating to use a ruler! Or whatever tool is required.

Chris

Drawing a freehand perfect circle is nearly impossible for any human, regardless of their experience in the arts. Just saying....

 

[catfish chapstick]

Drawing a freehand perfect circle is nearly impossible for any human, regardless of their experience in the arts. Just saying....

I can draw a freehand circle perfectly. Its not impossible.

 

[coh]

Drawing a freehand perfect circle is nearly impossible for any human, regardless of their experience in the arts. Just saying....

You missed the point...which is that the ability to draw a straight line or a perfect circle or a decent replica of a human figure does not make one an artist. Nor does following all the rules of composition or design.

 

[Paradox]

When I was younger, I used to be very driven, ambitious and competative, to the point of insanity at times.

Ive gotten to the point in life that I really dont care about keeping up with the status quo or about what other people think of me. Ive had my share of accomplishments in life and Im very happy with what Ive done and what I have. As a result, Im alot more relaxed and can enjoy life.

 

[coh]

When I was younger, I used to be very driven, ambitious and competative, to the point of insanity at times.

Ive gotten to the point in life that I really dont care about keeping up with the status quo or about what other people think of me. Ive had my share of accomplishments in life and Im very happy with what Ive done and what I have. As a result, Im alot more relaxed and can enjoy life.

This sort of follows up what Catfish wrote earlier: "If you grow trees for fifty years and have no masterpiece to show for it, was it a waste?"

I think the individual is really the only one who can answer the question in a meaningful way. I may think you wasted your time, but if you don't feel that way, that's the only thing that matters.

And who decides if something is a masterpiece, anyway?

Chris