The science of air-layering

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
Messages
20,977
Reaction score
28,250
Location
Berwyn, Il
USDA Zone
6.2
don't want to fill up Bonsai Nut's guide topic, with our talking.
If I understand correctly....
It's stickied to stay at the top.

All the talk is beneficial, I made it personal for you...
Anyone who takes this seriously Will apply it to themselves...
Or even find your maple and elm threads and know even more.

Come to think of it.....

You can learn what You can do safely with a layer here. Even easier than experimenting yourself.

Work time.

Sorce
 

ConorDash

Omono
Messages
1,886
Reaction score
1,839
Location
Essex, UK, Zone 8
If I understand correctly....
It's stickied to stay at the top.

All the talk is beneficial, I made it personal for you...
Anyone who takes this seriously Will apply it to themselves...
Or even find your maple and elm threads and know even more.

Come to think of it.....

You can learn what You can do safely with a layer here. Even easier than experimenting yourself.

Work time.

Sorce
Of course, and I appreciate it, just worry that people find I chime in on stuff and take over conversations lol.
Im a worrier, not just with my trees.

I think with my many questions asked and some luck, my elm and maple threads are quite good at providing knowledge. Not because of me of course, but because I was lucky enough to have many more knowledgable people chime in on them.
 

michaelj

Chumono
Messages
831
Reaction score
862
Location
Orange County, CA
USDA Zone
10
Kofu Kai in Anaheim, California is bringing in a guy named John Neilson this Saturday night to do a demo on air-layering and other propagation techniques. If you're in the area, it should be a pretty good presentation. John's an arborist who's been doing bonsai for about 30 years. Meeting is Saturday the 15th at 7 pm. 1000 State College Blvd., Anaheim, CA.
 

jmw_bonsai

Mame
Messages
150
Reaction score
250
Location
Hoschton, Ga 30548
USDA Zone
7b
Thanks for posting parhamr, I must now download the pics and translate the text for my club's friends ;)
I have some other sketches which I think are in French. Not sure where I got them but they are very good also. Ill dig them up and post also. Would love for you to translate to English. The sketches are so good, they are self explanatory but would love to see the actual text.
 

Bonsai Nut

Nuttier than your average Nut
Messages
8,328
Reaction score
14,047
Location
OC, CA
USDA Zone
10A
I have some other sketches which I think are in French. Not sure where I got them but they are very good also. Ill dig them up and post also. Would love for you to translate to English. The sketches are so good, they are self explanatory but would love to see the actual text.
Careful with some of these images. For example, image #4 and image #6 are illustrations of what you DON'T want to do. Image #7 is what you DO want to do.
 

Shima

Chumono
Messages
992
Reaction score
1,389
Location
Hawaii, 4,000 ft, rainforest
USDA Zone
N/A
This is also first I've heard of the foil thing.. and sun damaging the layer.
I'd wonder if anyone can attest to that trick more, nice thing to know.
Reynolds makes a foil called Super Strength. One step down from flashing. Well, not really, but it's very heavy and makes layering easier, for me at least. I scrunch a "bowl" under the cut, pinching it tightly around the branch and fill with moss which grows everywhere around here and works better than dried and it's free. Then firmly wrap the foil around a few times or use 2 or 3 layers and firm it up at the top making sure it's sealed all round. Sometimes I spray it flat black if I don't want it to be noticed in the forest. If over-heating were a problem I'd wrap it with cloth. If I'm concerned about it drying out I inject H20 with a basting syringe. After the roots have gone from delicate white to tan I inject a weak solution of fertiliser.
 

jmw_bonsai

Mame
Messages
150
Reaction score
250
Location
Hoschton, Ga 30548
USDA Zone
7b
Careful with some of these images. For example, image #4 and image #6 are illustrations of what you DON'T want to do. Image #7 is what you DO want to do.
Yes, the red X. Its actually good because it helps people to understand where they went wrong, like going to deep, or not deep enough. But you are correct, needs to prefaced so beginners don't miss that. That's why I need it in English, LOL
 

Bonsai Nut

Nuttier than your average Nut
Messages
8,328
Reaction score
14,047
Location
OC, CA
USDA Zone
10A
Yes, the red X. Its actually good because it helps people to understand where they went wrong, like going to deep, or not deep enough. But you are correct, needs to prefaced so beginners don't miss that. That's why I need it in English, LOL
No, not the red "X". Red "X" just means you have cut through that layer of the tree. It does not mean good or bad.

I'll repeat: image #4 and image #6 are illustrations of what you DON'T want to do. Image #7 is what you DO want to do.

I'm not sure why you are posting these images? They say the exact same thing that I've already posted, except they do it in a foreign language(?) I'm not trying to be rude but I don't understand why repeat the exact same content but in a way that can be misunderstood(?)

Let me explain the French :)

Image 4 shows what happens if you don't cut your girdle deep enough, and don't sever the phloem, which doesn't allow auxin to accumulate above the girdle (bad).

Image 6 shows what happens if you cut your girdle too deeply, and sever the sapwood, thereby severing the flow of water and nutrients to the top of the tree/top of the layer. You have basically creating a large cutting (bad).

Image 7 shows when you cut your girdle to the correct level, severing the phloem but not severing the sapwood. This allows auxins to accumulate above the girdle while still supplying the upper portion of the tree with water and nutrients (good).
 
Last edited:

jmw_bonsai

Mame
Messages
150
Reaction score
250
Location
Hoschton, Ga 30548
USDA Zone
7b
No, not the red "X". Red "X" just means you have cut through that layer of the tree. It does not mean good or bad.

I'll repeat: image #4 and image #6 are illustrations of what you DON'T want to do. Image #7 is what you DO want to do.

I'm not sure why you are posting these images? They say the exact same thing that I've already posted, except they do it in a foreign language(?) I'm not trying to be rude but I don't understand why repeat the exact same content but in a way that can be misunderstood(?)

Let me explain the French :)

Image 4 shows what happens if you don't cut your girdle deep enough, and don't sever the phloem, which doesn't allow auxin to accumulate above the girdle (bad).

Image 6 shows what happens if you cut your girdle too deeply, and sever the sapwood, thereby severing the flow of water and nutrients to the top of the tree/top of the layer. You have basically creating a large cutting (bad).

Image 7 shows when you cut your girdle to the correct level, severing the phloem but not severing the sapwood. This allows auxins to accumulate above the girdle while still supplying the upper portion of the tree with water and nutrients (good).
Sorry I wasn't looking hard enough (Working while I post) at the order. Yes you are correc, the red X arent good or bad. That one cuts off the down flow but not the up flow. I wasn't trying to mislead was just seeing if The French could be translated. I agree with you if you don't look and take the time to look (Like I did, LOL) they can be misleading, but when I first found this I was able to follow pretty well.
 
Last edited:

jmw_bonsai

Mame
Messages
150
Reaction score
250
Location
Hoschton, Ga 30548
USDA Zone
7b
Sorry I wasn't looking hard enough (Working while I post) at the order. Yes you are correc, the red X arent good or bad. That one cuts off the down flow but not the up flow. I wasn't trying to mislead was just seeing if The French could be translated. I agree with you if you don't look and take the time to look (Like I did, LOL) they can be misleading, but when I first found this I was able to follow pretty well.

If we need to delete them to avoid confusion lets do that. And then I could maybe send to him in a PM and get some translations. Or is there a way we could add some labels. I don't have edit access now. Maybe we could add
1. Overall Tree Functions
2. General Air Layer
3. Normal Functions Side View
4. Layer Cut INCORRECT Not Deep enough to stop downward flow to roots
5. Good Air Layer with Roots forming
6. Layer Cut INCORRECT Too Deep Cuts off But up and down flow, stopping water from the roots.
7. Layer Cut CORRECT Cuts off downward flow to roots but not upward flow of water from roots.
 

AlainK

Masterpiece
Messages
3,201
Reaction score
5,269
Location
Orléans, France, Europe
USDA Zone
8A
I have some other sketches which I think are in French. Not sure where I got them but they are very good also. Ill dig them up and post also. Would love for you to translate to English. The sketches are so good, they are self explanatory but would love to see the actual text.
No problemo mein freund ;)

Seriously now, if you need me to translate from French to Englsh, I'll be happy to do it, and you can re-write the text so it sounds like native Canadian/US/Irish/British English :cool:
 

jmw_bonsai

Mame
Messages
150
Reaction score
250
Location
Hoschton, Ga 30548
USDA Zone
7b
No problemo mein freund ;)

Seriously now, if you need me to translate from French to Englsh, I'll be happy to do it, and you can re-write the text so it sounds like native Canadian/US/Irish/British English :cool:
Thanks!!! Of course if I made it sound native, for me that would be redneck with a southern drawl! LOL Ill work with you directly thru messages so I don't clog up this great thread.
 

Bonsai Nut

Nuttier than your average Nut
Messages
8,328
Reaction score
14,047
Location
OC, CA
USDA Zone
10A
If I understand correctly....
It's stickied to stay at the top.
I started to think about stickying threads that are very specifically related to the kinds of questions we see over and over on the site and have really good guides or "how-tos". Air-layering, grafting, propagation, etc. I might move some to our resource area after they have been discussed for a while.
 

Bonsai Nut

Nuttier than your average Nut
Messages
8,328
Reaction score
14,047
Location
OC, CA
USDA Zone
10A
No problemo mein freund ;)

Seriously now, if you need me to translate from French to Englsh, I'll be happy to do it, and you can re-write the text so it sounds like native Canadian/US/Irish/British English :cool:
Alain may speak fluent French and English, but his Spanish and German need a little work, LOL!
 

ConorDash

Omono
Messages
1,886
Reaction score
1,839
Location
Essex, UK, Zone 8
Reynolds makes a foil called Super Strength. One step down from flashing. Well, not really, but it's very heavy and makes layering easier, for me at least. I scrunch a "bowl" under the cut, pinching it tightly around the branch and fill with moss which grows everywhere around here and works better than dried and it's free. Then firmly wrap the foil around a few times or use 2 or 3 layers and firm it up at the top making sure it's sealed all round. Sometimes I spray it flat black if I don't want it to be noticed in the forest. If over-heating were a problem I'd wrap it with cloth. If I'm concerned about it drying out I inject H20 with a basting syringe. After the roots have gone from delicate white to tan I inject a weak solution of fertiliser.
Sounds like you have it done to a fine art, my friend. Sounds good, thank you for the info.
 

Similar threads


Top Bottom