The size of bonsai

[Paradox]

I use both metric and imperial measurements at work so I can usually convert easily enough, particularly with linear measurements.

As someone alluded to, 1 inch = 2.54 cm

 

[coh]

The first time I went to a show I couldn't believe how large some of the trees were.
All of mine are all under 24 " tall.

Several of us on the set-up and photo crew at the last National Exhibition were discussing the need for some size limits...partly joking but many of those trees were enormous and difficult to move. A couple were so large we couldn't get them through the door into the photo room and they had to be photographed in place.

 

[Paradox]

Yea, I love to see the larger trees and would love to have some of them, but the reality of the fact that if I can't move it by myself, then it's not a good idea to have that kind of tree.

I select trees with the thought in mind that I am getting older and need to be able to handle them in 20 years hopefully and God willing.

 

[0soyoung]

I use both metric and imperial measurements at work so I can usually convert easily enough, particularly with linear measurements.

As someone alluded to, 1 inch = 2.54 cm

I use

10 cm = 4 inches​

for quick, 'in my head' conversions.

 

[Paradox]

I use

10 cm = 4 inches​

for quick, 'in my head' conversions.

As they say, close enough for government work.

 

[clevetromba]

I would say that unless you're a connoisseur of small trees, they do make less of a visual impact in person. As you survey a room full of trees, you're going to be drawn to the larger ones just because they are easier to see. Smaller bonsai may be equally impressive in a photograph, or if you are "in the know". It all comes down to context, and how you'll be displaying and enjoying them.

 

[GrimLore]

It is nice to have a few large around and chosen properly you may not have to move them for years at a time. It really is a matter of personal taste too. I was all set to buy that Monster Bald Cypress from John G for Crystal and she did not like it - I really like it but oh well...

Grimmy

 

[JudyB]

Seems to be the same way at most shows... the big trees get the most attention/awards for "best in show"... and that is being awarded by the judges and in some shows a popular vote, so I would say it is the common conception to both the trained and untrained eye. I guess it is something to do with the amount of time and work generally being longer and more for the large stuff? It does make a bigger impact in person too...

I've been thinking about this a lot recently, as I'm trying not to acquire any more really big trees. What I've been thinking is that if there are specific shows for shohin why not specific shows for Chuchin, or medium sized trees. These are where my heart really lies, my favorite size. Some of these super large trees don't really even read as bonsai to me, they are too close to being life size some of them.

 

[twisted trees]

There seems to be a funny concept where some people can't seem to go past the size of a tree before they really consider it. This is particularly so with the Vietnamese community here - a couple of which are close friends. No matter how much I explain that size and quality are completely separate, they insist that small trees (less than about 15 or 20 inches) just don't give them the right ''feeling''. So much so that they will by-pass a high quality small tree and pay any price to acquire the big stuff regardless of quality.
What's going on? Is it immaturity? Is it cultural? In my mind they are missing something!

Why are you denying their feelings?

 

[MichaelS]

Why are you denying their feelings?

Say what?

 

[Eric Group]

Actually in many cases the larger the tree the less time it takes. For example I find it much easier to wire a larger tree, and in some species it is easier to keep them maintained. It really depends on the tree and the species (as well as point in development), but size is not directly related to work required. Try to maintain a shohin broom-style elm for example... hoo boy! Compared to a large California juniper that just gets pruned once per year and needs only light finished wiring on occasion.

Yeah, but it takes DECADES to grow a Juniper to that large size, develop it into a tree... just to get enough foliage on a large one takes a lot of growing usually. You can usually develop a shohin much faster than a larger tree, if we are talking comparable species... Of course comparing the time it takes to develop a pine to a juniper or Elm makes no sense.

 

[Adair M]

I've been thinking about this a lot recently, as I'm trying not to acquire any more really big trees. What I've been thinking is that if there are specific shows for shohin why not specific shows for Chuchin, or medium sized trees. These are where my heart really lies, my favorite size. Some of these super large trees don't really even read as bonsai to me, they are too close to being life size some of them.

Boon’s club, Bay Island Bonsai, did exactly that a couple years ago: no trees over 24 inches! Typical show he has both. He divides up the show into two rooms. One room has the “big trees”, and one room has the “small trees”. That way they don’t compete against each other so much.

I prefer the sizes from about 25 inches and shorter, too. Mind you, you can still have a massive tree that’s only that tall!

 

[Adair M]

Several of us on the set-up and photo crew at the last National Exhibition were discussing the need for some size limits...partly joking but many of those trees were enormous and difficult to move. A couple were so large we couldn't get them through the door into the photo room and they had to be photographed in place.

Not to mention Hagedorn’s Engelmann Spruce! It’s spectacular, but I don’t consider it “bonsai”.

 

[MichaelS]

Of course comparing the time it takes to develop a pine to a juniper or Elm makes no sense.

Not only that, IMO, comparing any two bonsai for any reason whatsoever makes no sense. You look at what is in front of you without any baggage. If it moves you - good, and if it doesn't - move on.
But back to the original query, I suspect that the smaller the tree the more your imagination needs to come into play and I also suspect that those who like huge bonsai only are the kind of people who would rather have a story read to them than be a part of it. (if that makes sense) We just had our annul show and best in show was awarded to a huge tree - again. There where any number of better trees at one eighth the size. When I say better, I mean with more considered branch placement, finer rather than rough, more thoughtful compositions etc. But no, the big one got it. So then, even for an experienced observer, the impact of the big won him over. So there are two ways of viewing, the layman's (general public) way which does not seem to be reserved exclusively for the layman, and the deeper observation that uses your mind as well as the image in front of you to make a ''story''.
In simpler words, It's easier to look at large trees.

 

[Eric Group]

Not only that, IMO, comparing any two bonsai for any reason whatsoever makes no sense. You look at what is in front of you without any baggage. If it moves you - good, and if it doesn't - move on.
But back to the original query, I suspect that the smaller the tree the more your imagination needs to come into play and I also suspect that those who like huge bonsai only are the kind of people who would rather have a story read to them than be a part of it. (if that makes sense) We just had our annul show and best in show was awarded to a huge tree - again. There where any number of better trees at one eighth the size. When I say better, I mean with more considered branch placement, finer rather than rough, more thoughtful compositions etc. But no, the big one got it. So then, even for an experienced observer, the impact of the big won him over. So there are two ways of viewing, the layman's (general public) way which does not seem to be reserved exclusively for the layman, and the deeper observation that uses your mind as well as the image in front of you to make a ''story''.
In simpler words, It's easier to look at large trees.

Was perhaps one of the smaller/"better" trees that did not win, YOUR tree?

 

[namnhi]

Would be nice to see the awarded tree vs the ones you think is nicer than it... To see if everyone seeing the same.

 

[JudyB]

Boon’s club, Bay Island Bonsai, did exactly that a couple years ago: no trees over 24 inches! Typical show he has both. He divides up the show into two rooms. One room has the “big trees”, and one room has the “small trees”. That way they don’t compete against each other so much.

I prefer the sizes from about 25 inches and shorter, too. Mind you, you can still have a massive tree that’s only that tall!

That's nice, I wonder if there is enough interest to have a larger regional or national show dedicated to this category of tree. Is there an overall encompassing word for this size? Does Chuchin cover it?
Everyone understands when shohin is named, what is expected. Perhaps the shohin shows could be expanded to have a category for the medium sized trees, I think that could work well. @William N. Valavanis - what do you think of this idea?

It's interesting that before this thread, I was going to post a new thread asking this very question...

 

[JudyB]

Would be nice to see the awarded tree vs the ones you think is nicer than it... To see if everyone seeing the same.

I think that bonsai viewing is pretty subjective to the viewer don't you? (unless there are obvious flaws, or poor development)

 

[Anthony]

Ha, it takes more to make a 3" [ 8 cm ] look like a tree, and not the cutesy
wootsey stuff you normally see, with the super colourful pots.
The tree has to be able to branch more and be denser of leaf.

Otherwise, what you have is a cutting in a pot.

Which is why we use the Gmelina for really small efforts. Fulfills the above
and has cracking bark.

When they get larger than 3 feet / around 1 m, you might as well just grow
a tree in the back yard.
Smaller takes more effort to appear BELIEVABLE!!!!!!!
Good Day
Anthony

 

[namnhi]

I think that bonsai viewing is pretty subjective to the viewer don't you? (unless there are obvious flaws, or poor development)

That's right but still curious on what the majority think if there are pics.