Acer palmatum

[ajm55555]

growth after a big cut is often deformed, but blackening/drying is not normal, that's fungus attacks on new shoots, he sprayed the trees after seeing it, and then the new leaves appearing after spraying grow without being attacked by the fungus, as simple as that.

That's what I had on some branches of the new growth, no pruning before. I didn't spray against fungus and the new leaves are normal.
I aknowledge it's nothing like Connor has and maybe it just went away because it was not widespread.

 

[papymandarin]

if the tree is strong enough or weather turns less favorable to the fungus the tree can grow out of it without help indeed, what i mean is that stress most probably favour the fungus but the blackening is not an effect of stress per se

 

[ConorDash]

Your case is worse but I can see the same pattern as in my situation. To me, these deformed leaves are a sign of stress because of the extended pruning at an unusual time. Even the second regular growth in July is more under stress than the first one in Spring and that's what happened to me.
If the new leaves now are more regularly shaped and do not blacken, I'd say there is no fungus or other disease. At least this is my experience.

Bear in mind my pruning was in good time, not bad. I wouldn’t have pruned so hard if it was a bad time.
But I understand your logic.

I think this kind of pruning would have been better first growth, so in late winter before bids start forming or extending. But that’s just my inexperienced observation.

growth after a big cut is often deformed, but blackening/drying is not normal, that's fungus attacks on new shoots, he sprayed the trees after seeing it, and then the new leaves appearing after spraying grow without being attacked by the fungus, as simple as that.

Thanks, I hope it genuinely is that simple!
In which case I’ll make sure to spray the new growth. I’m spraying every 2 weeks any way.

 

[papymandarin]

you have much more risks to have some of the branches not budding at all if you do such cuts leaving no formed buds in late winter (i got a triple trunk that became a double trunk because of that), after first growth has matured is the safest time in my opinion/experience for bare branches not to fail budding.

 

[ConorDash]

you have much more risks to have some of the branches not budding at all if you do such cuts leaving no formed buds in late winter (i got a triple trunk that became a double trunk because of that), after first growth has matured is the safest time in my opinion/experience for bare branches not to fail budding.

Good to know, interesting.
And yet elms are good to prune before spring, so I guess that particular thing differs in species?

 

[papymandarin]

what changes it that elms are less prone to die back and bud anywhere even on the cut itself, unlike japanese maples

 

[ConorDash]

what changes it that elms are less prone to die back and bud anywhere even on the cut itself, unlike japanese maples

Thanks .

So this is him again now. The shoots from trunk all great, no deformation or blackened leaves..
There were actually loads more behind the trunk that I hadn’t noticed before.
I’m 90% sure that I should cut these off as they are not going to be used in the design, will only blemish the bark the longer they are there and they siphon energy away from other areas of the tree... it’s very nice to see them and have them but they should go..
..

Right? Lol.



@sorce

 

[cbroad]

I’m 90% sure that I should cut these off as they are not going to be used in the design, will only blemish the bark the longer they are there and they siphon energy away from other areas of the tree...

If it was me, I'd probably let those buds and branches grow this season to strengthen the tree. It seems like it has had pretty weak growth since the hard pruning and I'd hate to see this tree exhaust it's energy and poop out on you; it has such a great trunk!

These buds and branches shouldn't leave too many marks on the trunk if you let them grow for the rest on this season, and if you prune flush with the trunk, they'll heal fine and clean in no time.

 

[my nellie]

... ...In which case I’ll make sure to spray the new growth. I’m spraying every 2 weeks any way.

I believe you are aware of it but I thought I should mention either way... Well, no more than three times using the same product.
And I do stand by @cbroad on keeping for now all the growth in order for the tree to gain strength!

 

[ConorDash]

I believe you are aware of it but I thought I should mention either way... Well, no more than three times using the same product.
And I do stand by @cbroad on keeping for now all the growth in order for the tree to gain strength!

I was actually not..! Do explain?
I have 2 different fungicides that I tend to switch out every 2 weeks.. but that was just a random pattern.

 

[my nellie]

@ConorDash this is for prevention of fungicide resistance development.
Members with scientific background can of course explain using scientific wording but I can only write in simple words what I have understood from some reading.
Maybe the trade names of two products differ from one another but they are both in the same chemical group.
When plants develop resistance to a fungicide, they will be resistant to all other products within that same chemical family.
The continued use of one or a very few types of compound presents greater risk of side-effects and resistance development.
That's why recently there are produced mixtures of fungicides.
So it is important to rotate fungicides.

 

[ConorDash]

@ConorDash this is for prevention of fungicide resistance development.
Members with scientific background can of course explain using scientific wording but I can only write in simple words what I have understood from some reading.
Maybe the trade names of two products differ from one another but they are both in the same chemical group.
When plants develop resistance to a fungicide, they will be resistant to all other products within that same chemical family.
The continued use of one or a very few types of compound presents greater risk of side-effects and resistance development.
That's why recently there are produced mixtures of fungicides.
So it is important to rotate fungicides.

Oh interesting, I never thought of that.. so it seems like I am a bit stuck. I have 2 different fungicides, whether they are from the same chemical group or not, I don’t know. But if I continue to spray every fortnight, it may build up a resistance but at same time I want to keep doing it because the tree may develop a fungus and decline in health..
Without buying 4-5 different types, how can one win? Lol

 

[0soyoung]

Have you tried a (300 ppm to 0.1%) peroxide spray? Just get some 3% peroxide from the grocery/pharmacy. It is anti-septic, meaning it also kills bacteria.. Have you tried NEEM oil? It is reported to have anti-fungal properties.

 

[taylor schaffner]

i got the same thing on my maple i hope i did nothing wrong but i got rid of all of the black leaves and sprayed its inside now under the grow lights is that good or should i place it in the shade garden in the back of my house for it to recover have two trees doing this

 

[jacob letoile]

Look on the fungicide label, you should find a group number. Every fungicide with the same number acts on the fungus in the same way. Even if you use 10 different brands or active ingredients if the group number is the same you are not really rotating. The idea behind rotating is that if a pest gets resistant to one group number you can keep it from getting dominant by reducing its population back down with another group number. That way the resistant genes can be diluted. Rotation and not using too lite a dose are your best defences against resistance. Two different group numbers are sufficient, though more is better.

Hope that helps.

 

[0soyoung]

At what point does one start wondering whether it is NOT fungal. IIRC, @ConorDash, you've grown this tree for at least two prior seasons with no problems. Now, you've gotten brave, cut it, and it comes down with this mysterious problem that gets curiouser and curiouser.

 

[ConorDash]

Look on the fungicide label, you should find a group number. Every fungicide with the same number acts on the fungus in the same way. Even if you use 10 different brands or active ingredients if the group number is the same you are not really rotating. The idea behind rotating is that if a pest gets resistant to one group number you can keep it from getting dominant by reducing its population back down with another group number. That way the resistant genes can be diluted. Rotation and not using too lite a dose are your best defences against resistance. Two different group numbers are sufficient, though more is better.

Hope that helps.

I’ll check that when I get home tonight, thanks .

At what point does one start wondering whether it is NOT fungal. IIRC, @ConorDash, you've grown this tree for at least two prior seasons with no problems. Now, you've gotten brave, cut it, and it comes down with this mysterious problem that gets curiouser and curiouser.

Well it’s not necessarily.
It is doing what many predicted here in this topic. The first growth is bad, but it can happen, apparently. As the shoots are extending, the subsequent leaves are lovely.
The first growth from dormant buds, like on the trunk, are all good, no problem at all.

I’ve heard many times of neem oil. It’s also a good dormant spray? If I remember rightly.
I’ll check that out and the peroxide you mentioned, when I’m home tonight. I’m in UK so there might be an alternative for neem oil, I’ve no idea. But I’ll check it out cos why not. Even if it’s not necessarily useful right now, always good to have for future too.

Willput some updated pics on soon too, as it’s changing and growing quite quickly at the moment.

 

[ConorDash]

i got the same thing on my maple i hope i did nothing wrong but i got rid of all of the black leaves and sprayed its inside now under the grow lights is that good or should i place it in the shade garden in the back of my house for it to recover have two trees doing this

Where ever it was previously, keep it there. Don’t switch locations. And as far as I know, it should always be outside unless you are in a bad zone for maples, but I think that’s unlikely (climate zone).

Sounds like what you did is correct. Spray to help fight any issue it may have, didnt have to remove bad ones but can’t imagine what harm it may have caused and keep the tree healthy with correct amount of watering. Yes shade sounds good too, but there’s a lot of other factors too, mostly in regards to your current weather and area you are in (difference between US and UK climate, for example).

 

[ConorDash]

This guy is looking great now.. really fast growth.
Some bigger leaves, which actually have different shaped lobes than previous.. maybe still just bit of deformation but I’m not worried. Looking good! Time to grow.

Still not putting back in sun yet. Maybe once our heat cools down a bit.

 

[taylor schaffner]

Great there is hope for mine