Anonymous User
Banned
The Ultimate “Put Up or Shut Up” Challenge
Over the scant five years I have been involved in bonsai, I have posted many of my efforts as well as contributed to the community in many ways, including writing many articles for the major bonsai magazines, creating on-line magazines, and creating contests that outshine any that came before.
Yet, a few individuals ignore all this and periodically post innuendos, suggestions, and other such backhanded comments suggesting that, since I do all these other things, I can not or do not actually ”do bonsai.”
Never mind the fact that I always have posted bonsai on many forums, going as far back as posting a ficus to Walter Pall’s “Ask the Master” section at BT, when it existed, to a recent series of posts at Bsite asking the members if their vision matched my vision for a few of my own bonsai.
It was not quite a year ago that I once again answered the same baseless remarks by posting a progression of a semi-cascade ficus and a mugo pine right here on this forum. Never the less, these comments still surface whenever a few people can not debate a subject and attempt to “win” by implying that since I do not actually do bonsai, the information I put forth is not correct. This is commonly called “Attacking the person” and actually proves nothing...I don’t have to be a drunk to tell someone that drinking and driving is dangerous.
Before I get to the challenge, let’s look at some of the most recent comments of this nature to see where they come from and to prove I am not just knocking over straw men here.
Now the challenge......
I challenge the people quoted above, as well as any others who wish to jump in, to compete head to head with me designing a bonsai. This is your chance to prove that I can’t actually do bonsai and to finally shut me up. However, it is also my chance to shut you up forever.
Here are the conditions and rules.
All participants will purchase a piece of bonsai material blindly. Meaning that we will respectfully ask Brent, who has material and is well known for his impartiality, fairness, and level-headiness, to select material for us. This material will all be the same species, be of the same overall quality, and offer the same options. The participants will not know what species, size, or quality of material they are receiving until it arrives at their doorstep. The only advantage they will have is their own ability and talent.
Participants will pay for the material they will be sent.
Once we receive the material, we will post four pictures, one of each side, right here at Bnut.
We will have 1 month to style the material, we will not be re-potting, and at that time, we will post four pictures, one of each side, right here at Bnut again.
All work must be the participants own, no help, advice, suggestions, or direction can be given by anyone, this is about what we can do ourselfs.
At that time all entries will be auctioned off here at Bnut, every entry will be in this auction because.....the bonsai receiving the highest winning bid, which is paid, will be determined the winner. Any winning tree that is not paid for will be disqualified.
Lastly, all proceeds will go to the William Valavanis benefit to help him rebuild.
This eliminates having to find impartial judges and the foolish popularity vote.
I can hear them already, so don’t waste your time giving us excuses that won’t cut it. Here’s your chance to prove your own words or to run, lest you be exposed. Don’t waste our time telling us about the labor pains, show us the baby!
This should be the last “put up or shut up” thread we will ever see from these people because it is all here, all laid out, all ready for them to, well....put up or shut up.
So do you have the courage to put you money where your mouth is, to put your words up to the test? I’m talking to you, Chris Johnston, Al Keppler, Irene_b, King Kong, TheSteve, JasonG, cquinn, mojosan, buddamonk, others? Do you have what you claim I need?
Will
Over the scant five years I have been involved in bonsai, I have posted many of my efforts as well as contributed to the community in many ways, including writing many articles for the major bonsai magazines, creating on-line magazines, and creating contests that outshine any that came before.
Yet, a few individuals ignore all this and periodically post innuendos, suggestions, and other such backhanded comments suggesting that, since I do all these other things, I can not or do not actually ”do bonsai.”
Never mind the fact that I always have posted bonsai on many forums, going as far back as posting a ficus to Walter Pall’s “Ask the Master” section at BT, when it existed, to a recent series of posts at Bsite asking the members if their vision matched my vision for a few of my own bonsai.
It was not quite a year ago that I once again answered the same baseless remarks by posting a progression of a semi-cascade ficus and a mugo pine right here on this forum. Never the less, these comments still surface whenever a few people can not debate a subject and attempt to “win” by implying that since I do not actually do bonsai, the information I put forth is not correct. This is commonly called “Attacking the person” and actually proves nothing...I don’t have to be a drunk to tell someone that drinking and driving is dangerous.
Before I get to the challenge, let’s look at some of the most recent comments of this nature to see where they come from and to prove I am not just knocking over straw men here.
Hey, Mr. Kettle! Show me some of your trees, then I will know for sure who is faking it. How about it, no more bullsaht man, put up or shut up! You want everyone to think that you are an authority. Put up now, or forever hold your tongue.
By the way the subject I chose was for you to post some pregression shots of your trees. You hvestill failed to do so. You told me to do it. I just may. I think it's time we see just what you can do compliments of Keppler bullcrap. Just because you can scream louder doesn't make you right and the proof is in the trees.
Having 500 trees in the ground means nothing, anyone can do that. Its what you do with them that counts. So far no one has seen anything. Just like the trees you post, they are nothing either, I have seen a few descent trees but nothing great or even good. Every article you have written that I am aware of is the same stuff that has been said before.....
So, carry on with the articles, and please do me a favor and learn from some of the pros that come through... people like Marco, Walter, etc.. those guys that travel the world teaching bonsai. You can really benefit from what they have to offer, then you can apply what you learned to your trees. They will thank you for that.
Put up or shut up.
well you know what they say..."those who can, do and those can't, teach"
I would like to see some of Will's trees also. The only ones I've seen have been initial stylings. I've seen lots of Al's trees, and I like them a lot. I would like to see Will's trees, so I know whom I should ignore and whom I shouldn't. I don't really care about articles. I can recite maxims all day, but that doesn't put world class trees on my benches.
Congratulations on repeating all of your accomplishments verbatim from every other thread on here. I just want to say this. everything you mentioned boils down to being decent with computers and being able to parrot what you've read. I never see you offer advice from initial styling. You offer refinement but never do you take the challenge to step up and tell someone what to do with raw stock.
All this talk is exhausting. How bout just showing what you really know when it comes to plants and pruners.
Now the challenge......
I challenge the people quoted above, as well as any others who wish to jump in, to compete head to head with me designing a bonsai. This is your chance to prove that I can’t actually do bonsai and to finally shut me up. However, it is also my chance to shut you up forever.
Here are the conditions and rules.
All participants will purchase a piece of bonsai material blindly. Meaning that we will respectfully ask Brent, who has material and is well known for his impartiality, fairness, and level-headiness, to select material for us. This material will all be the same species, be of the same overall quality, and offer the same options. The participants will not know what species, size, or quality of material they are receiving until it arrives at their doorstep. The only advantage they will have is their own ability and talent.
Participants will pay for the material they will be sent.
Once we receive the material, we will post four pictures, one of each side, right here at Bnut.
We will have 1 month to style the material, we will not be re-potting, and at that time, we will post four pictures, one of each side, right here at Bnut again.
All work must be the participants own, no help, advice, suggestions, or direction can be given by anyone, this is about what we can do ourselfs.
At that time all entries will be auctioned off here at Bnut, every entry will be in this auction because.....the bonsai receiving the highest winning bid, which is paid, will be determined the winner. Any winning tree that is not paid for will be disqualified.
Lastly, all proceeds will go to the William Valavanis benefit to help him rebuild.
This eliminates having to find impartial judges and the foolish popularity vote.
I can hear them already, so don’t waste your time giving us excuses that won’t cut it. Here’s your chance to prove your own words or to run, lest you be exposed. Don’t waste our time telling us about the labor pains, show us the baby!
This should be the last “put up or shut up” thread we will ever see from these people because it is all here, all laid out, all ready for them to, well....put up or shut up.
So do you have the courage to put you money where your mouth is, to put your words up to the test? I’m talking to you, Chris Johnston, Al Keppler, Irene_b, King Kong, TheSteve, JasonG, cquinn, mojosan, buddamonk, others? Do you have what you claim I need?
Will
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