The Value of Virtuals?

[Chris Johnston]

Don't like virts? By all means, don't use them.

Many people argued against the use of wire when it was first introduced, they finally accepted that it was a valid tool and now almost everyone uses it. Not so long ago, people collected dirt for use as bonsai soil, there were debates on if red dirt or black dirt was the best, dirt from forest floors or from river beds, etc.....then it was loam or peat and sand...now it has all changed, most have changed with it, some dinosaurs have not.

The computer virtual is a good tool if used correctly like concave cutters are a good tool, but only if used correctly. Don't like concave cutters? Don't use them and please don't beat everyone that chooses to use them to death.

Like virts? By all means use them. Can you draw? Great, draw away, but the computer is far better for quick glimpse on what could be, removing a branch on the computer before you actually do it is far easier than drawing a whole tree and you also save a few trees by not using drawing paper for such a simple task. Those who have the talent to draw should use that talent for better things than simply seeing if a tree would look good in a pot.....speaking of which, even the most talented artist can't draw a pot and tree combination that is as realistic as a photograph in anywhere near the time a average virt artist can.

Face it, virts are here to stay. As an example try having a conversation like this and express the same ideas without the use of virts. Without them a lot of creative thought and learning could not have taken place. When Walter Pall was doing "Ask the Master" virts were often used. (I miss Uwe) Lately many magazine articles have included a virt of a possible future of the tree featured. John Naka used drawings very often, drawings of possible futures of a tree, what is such a drawing except a virt done by hand instead of by computer?

Can't do virts? Here's a couple step by step tutorials for photoshop.

In closing, I promise not to tell you what tools to use to create your bonsai and I only ask the same.....





Will

Interesting response, at least the thread is not being ignored. My point in this poll, which seems to have gotten all the votes it will, was to bring up the idea of natural limitations to the use of virtuals. I would never suggest, as has been intimated, that I would tell someone what tools to use or not for bonsai.

However, I think the natural limitation of the use of virtuals would be when someone uses a virtual to show a possibility that could never exist, or to make up from whole cloth some aspect of a piece of material they could not possibly know about.

Inventing a branch that does not exist is not a problem, grafting might be done or branches added by adventitious budding. Virtual Jinning is a valid technique of course, because it can help to visualize what the existing branches might look like.

But let's have some sense, folks! Some of the virtuals I have seen may look good on screen, but they depend on fanciful guesswork of what the tree looks like in 3D, or even worse, add portions to the tree that no one could possibly know without more information.

I'm just looking for a bit of moderation. Bonsai is hard. Virtuals are easy.

 

[Anonymous User]

On another forum, Robert Steven just gave away a couple copies of his book to two people who posted virts that came close to the final design of a piece of stock shown by Robert. Considering overseas shipping and the cost of the book, the virts there had more than the usual value.



Will

 

[Chris Johnston]

On another forum, Robert Steven just gave away a couple copies of his book to two people who posted virts that came close to the final design of a piece of stock shown by Robert. Considering overseas shipping and the cost of the book, the virts there had more than the usual value.



Will

Interesting take on "value." Of course, those virtuals were based on a photo that was clear with easily defined components. No hidden parts that had to be invented.

 

[Chris Johnston]

I know you are probably ignoring this, but a link to the thread in question would be nice.

 

[No it's not...]

In case he is:http://www.knowledgeofbonsai.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=2305

 

[Anonymous User]

In case he is:http://www.knowledgeofbonsai.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=2305

Thanks.

And no, I am not now.



Will

 

[Bonsaiforlife]

I think that virtuals are somewhat similar to sketches, but more people know how to sketch than do virts. Sketches and virts are trying to imply the same result, the future of the tree.

Now if done the right way the person doing the sketch or virt should have a very well understanding of how trees grow and a good understanding of bonsai techniques so that they can "see" what will happen and know that if they "put" a branch here that it is achievable.

Just editing or sketching how you would like your tree to look does nothing if it is not achievable. But your sketch or virt must show how things are to be done, like do decidious trees in the winter when leaves are not on to see the structure.

Like previously mentioned I think that the more simple the better, I cant do virts very well and it takes longer than a sketch for me, I can show more with a sketch than a virt,

Thinking of the future is very important in bonsai so that you can get a good idea of how you are going to achieve your end result and when you are going to do certain techniques.

 

[Chris Johnston]

I think that virtuals are somewhat similar to sketches, but more people know how to sketch than do virts. Sketches and virts are trying to imply the same result, the future of the tree.

Now if done the right way the person doing the sketch or virt should have a very well understanding of how trees grow and a good understanding of bonsai techniques so that they can "see" what will happen and know that if they "put" a branch here that it is achievable.

Just editing or sketching how you would like your tree to look does nothing if it is not achievable. But your sketch or virt must show how things are to be done, like do decidious trees in the winter when leaves are not on to see the structure.

Like previously mentioned I think that the more simple the better, I cant do virts very well and it takes longer than a sketch for me, I can show more with a sketch than a virt,

Thinking of the future is very important in bonsai so that you can get a good idea of how you are going to achieve your end result and when you are going to do certain techniques.

I would agree with your point that virts are like sketches with this exception: almost every sketch is based on the artist viewing the tree in person. Virtuals are based on a photograph, of necessity. Even though both are two-dimensional, the one based on a live viewing of the tree will be more realistic every time, because of the limiting nature of the photo in the first place. Some trees are obvious, but so many have branches that move in unusual ways, viewing in person is the only way to get a true sense of what the tree is and what is possible with it.