Thinking about transplanting pines today...

OrganicSeasonal

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Morning, I was thinking about transplanting these Japanese black pines I bought from ebay today. I understand serious moves like this should be done in spring, but here in northern cali weather isn't so bad yet. I want them to grow bigger so I will transfer to pots a little bigger with a store bought organic potting soil/homemade compost mix. And yes I understand ground planting is better, but I'm in no hurry(I just purchased a mature Mikawa). Thank you for the guidance.

 

BrianBay9

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Slip potting up with minimal root disturbance can be done safely pretty much any time
 

augustine

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Pines should be planted in an open granular bonsai mix. Potting soil and compost is no good.
 

OrganicSeasonal

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I'm growing them out. I plan on working on them as bonsai years from now. So I can treat them as just regular pines in pots right?
 

aml1014

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Pines should be planted in an open granular bonsai mix. Potting soil and compost is no good.
I've come to learn, soil that's high in organics tends to make things grow bigger.
Heres 2 silver maples, same age. One is in pure inorganic soil, the other being in a homemade organic mix. I have dozens of both and they all show the exact same thing.1479218060267-2030253198.jpg
I slip pot when my saplings get root bound which seems to happen MUCH quicker in organic soil. Same goes for some jbp that I have. Bonsai soil is very good at developing fibrous root systems, but not thick long roots that actually thicken the trunk. Bonsai soil will come later in their life.
@GrimLore can agree with this.

Aaron
 

Anthony

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J.B.pines grow well in 5 mm silica based gravel and less than 1/3 aged compost by volume.
However we use earthenware pots, which handle cooling of soil, through evaporation and in being porous,
also aids in drainage.

Which Aaron, is what Augustine might have been after ------------ free information - with having to ask :):eek:
Being controversial to get a response ?

Been growing them like that since the original Bonsai Today information came out on pines.
Additionally, some areas of Japan, use volcanic sand and not akadama, which is scarce in some Japanese areas.

Organic S, maybe you should ask at a club near you. Those pines look really sparse.
Good Day
Anthony
 

GrimLore

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I want them to grow bigger so I will transfer to pots a little bigger with a store bought organic potting soil/homemade compost mix.
Slip potting them into larger containers using a similar Nursery Mix should be ok with minimal root disturbance.

Same goes for some jbp that I have. Bonsai soil is very good at developing fibrous root systems, but not thick long roots that actually thicken the trunk. Bonsai soil will come later in their life.
Yes indeed, or at least here too. Same applies to Junipers and many other plants as well. I might add that he will see the growth rate increase next growing season and not expect it at this time of year. The plants should really show well in late Spring and surge through Summer.
Also I use a mix of coarse silica sand, horticultural perlite, and Fafard premium topsoil. 1/3 each and I let the perlite soak in water a bit before mixing it in. By doing that the perlite floats up a LOT less.

Grimmy
 

aml1014

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More water and fertilizer should fix the problem.
The ones in bonsai soil where watered 2-3 times daily,fertilized with osmocote, happy frog 5-5-5 and double strength miracle grow once a week. The trees in inorganic got the same fertilizer but only required water every other day or so (depending on heat), and yet they still are triple the size here at the end of the year.
Inorganic for shallow pots and plants that like it more dry, organic mix for anything in a deep pot and likes water. That's what I'm learning.

Aaron
 

OrganicSeasonal

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Oh man you guys are making my brain hurt haha. I'm not that stupid just simple minded. I apply this simple philosophy to my organic gardening and things turn out well most of the time. Thank you for guidance.

☝☝️TODAY I SHALL UP POT THEE PINES!! TO THE GARDENING TABLE!!!☝☝
 

jeanluc83

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So why not to wait until the proper time?
Do it right.
You should definitely wait. It is true that your pines need a lot of growing out but that does not mean they should be left to their own devices. This includes the roots. It would be best to start working on the roots now when the trees are young and able to cope with the stress better. The longer you wait the more you will have to correct later.

The proper time to repot in CA is what a month or two away. If you can't wait that long bonsai is not the hobby for you.

The ones in bonsai soil where watered 2-3 times daily...

... The trees in inorganic got the same fertilizer but only required water every other day or so (depending on heat)
This is the key. The ones in the bonsai soil were watered far more than the ones in the potting mix but fertilized the same. You effectively washed the fertilizer out of the bonsai soil. If the level of fertilizer held in the bonsai soil was the same as the potting mix the resulting growth would likely be similar.
 

aml1014

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If the level of fertilizer held in the bonsai soil was the same as the potting mix the resulting growth would likely be similar.
Which is basically impossible as we all know, to give the trees in bonsai soil the same level of nutrients would mean daily fertilzing, which I'm definitely to poor for that crap:p
I personally like to put conifers into inorganic substrate as its easier to trasiton into a bonsai pot later on, and it's harder to replace long intrenodes with short ones lol but most of my deciduous in training LOVE them some organics and beef up much quicker.

Aaron
 

M. Frary

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deciduous in training
Mine get barerooted cut back and put right in a colander with inorganic substrate.
They all grow as much or more than the ones in the landscape.
But than again,it looks like I fertilize way more than you do.
 

OrganicSeasonal

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Yes point well taken jeanluc83. I'm definitely listening. The only thing I don't understand is working the roots. What do you mean by working the roots now. Thank you so much, this is exactly why I joined, to learn.
 

Dav4

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Yes point well taken jeanluc83. I'm definitely listening. The only thing I don't understand is working the roots. What do you mean by working the roots now. Thank you so much, this is exactly why I joined, to learn.
Developing young stock means developing the root base, too. You've got to pick the roots coming off the trunk, remove the ones that don't work, shorten overly long one's, pick small roots that are well placed but small and let them run to gain strength, and arrange them to look good from every angle when the tree has been grown on for some years.
 

jeanluc83

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You will likely have one or a couple of large dominant roots. They are the tap roots that would secure the tree in the ground. We are grown bonsai. Tap roots are of no use in a pot. Your roots are also likely to be a tangled mess from trying to grow and circling around the pot.

You want evenly distributed radial roots that are all roughly the same size. The large roots should be cut back and the smaller roots arranged radially.

Do some research on growing pines in colanders.

Take the time to read the thread by @Eric Schrader
A few pine seeds, 6 years later.
 

aml1014

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Mine get barerooted cut back and put right in a colander with inorganic substrate.
They all grow as much or more than the ones in the landscape.
But than again,it looks like I fertilize way more than you do.
Depends on the species I guess, my plums love inorganic soil and grow like weeds, but my maples like a bit of organic (I'm assuming to help overcome the dry heat here in summer). My malus seem to like it either way so it depends on what I'm doing with the plant (stage of development).
I can go on, but our climates are different so I assume that makes a difference aswell.

Aaron
 

M. Frary

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I only have one Hawthorn and a bunch of elms. They all grow like mad in colanders.
I pump the fertilizer through at high rates and as often as I can.
 
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