This is just sad...

Redwood Ryan said:
Thought I'd share this with you all. A Spanish company plans on cutting down 154 acres of Redwoods and Douglas Firs, just so they can plant grapes.

http://inhabitat.com/spanish-winema...to-cut-down-154-acres-of-california-redwoods/

Human greed, I swear...
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How do you respond to this without being political? Of course we can all agree who those individual greedy people are (nudge nudge) so it's OK to pillory them just for being alive. They don't even have to be involved and we can condemn them anyway.
 
Vance Wood said:
How do you respond to this without being political? Of course we can all agree who those individual greedy people are (nudge nudge) so it's OK to pillory them just for being alive. They don't even have to be involved and we can condemn them anyway.
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You don't have to be political Vance. Just agree and move on.
 
Vance is right. Political crap and greed. Grrrr. Torch and pitchfork time is almost here. Sorry.

Mike Frary
 
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For centuries now, all around the globe, forests are cleared/destroyed daily to make space for; housing, farm, factories, roads, mines, logging, etc.

If you haven't yet...get used to it because no one can stop it. Before human race reach it's sustainable limit, this earth will be nothing but wasteland. Sad indeed.
 
I agree its sad. I'm also amazed that they couldn't find some farmland for sale they could have used instead oof cutting down that forest. I am not familiar with redwood forest but if there is a lack of that habitat or its important in some way, then it should have been protected.
 
Paradox said:
I agree its sad. I'm also amazed that they couldn't find some farmland for sale they could have used instead oof cutting down that forest. I am not familiar with redwood forest but if there is a lack of that habitat or its important in some way, then it should have been protected.
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We are also making an assumption that this is true. It is really difficult for me to believe that the Sierra Club, EPA, and the Associated Tree Huggers of Greater California would allow some Winery to cut down a huge stand of old growth Red Woods and Doug Fir, ( 154 acre to quote the story) unless the project is associated with some progressive liberal group that is looking for pay backs.
 
Vance Wood said:
We are also making an assumption that this is true. It is really difficult for me to believe that the Sierra Club, EPA, and the Associated Tree Huggers of Greater California would allow some Winery to cut down a huge stand of old growth Red Woods and Doug Fir, ( 154 acre to quote the story) unless the project is associated with some progressive liberal group that is looking for pay backs.
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Honest as a East Coast person with a Wife that is an active Environmental Engineer with a Masters and Published I suspect they made a deal to donate and replant a lot more in order for that project to happen...

Grimmy
 
GrimLore said:
Honest as a East Coast person with a Wife that is an active Environmental Engineer with a Masters and Published I suspect they made a deal to donate and replant a lot more in order for that project to happen...

Grimmy
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Donate what to whom? Politician? Drug lord?
 
Vance Wood said:
We are also making an assumption that this is true. It is really difficult for me to believe that the Sierra Club, EPA, and the Associated Tree Huggers of Greater California would allow some Winery to cut down a huge stand of old growth Red Woods and Doug Fir, ( 154 acre to quote the story) unless the project is associated with some progressive liberal group that is looking for pay backs.
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This isn't the only article about it, there's more than one. The trees aren't the old, 300 foot tall monsters, they're only 50 years old, but even still.
 
Redwood Ryan said:
This isn't the only article about it, there's more than one. The trees aren't the old, 300 foot tall monsters, they're only 50 years old, but even still.
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That does make a difference. The age they are would leave me to believe that they were planted by the forest service to regenerate some loved off forest land.
 
Vance Wood said:
That does make a difference. The age they are would leave me to believe that they were planted by the forest service to regenerate some loved off forest land.
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I disagree that it makes that much of a difference. The trees help against erosion, which has been a problem for that area in the past.
 
Redwood Ryan said:
I disagree that it makes that much of a difference. The trees help against erosion, which has been a problem for that area in the past.
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I am aware of the area of where you speak I lived in Northern California for a number of years in the early 60's. However; if they plan on using the land to plant vineyards I don't see where erosion is an issue. Napa is on a bunch of hills and I don't remember hearing about a lot of erosion problems when I lived there because the vineyards could not hold the soil in place. Could it be that we are discussing an objection to free enterprise as opposed to reasonable environmental issues? Just thought I'de ask.
 
Vance Wood said:
I am aware of the area of where you speak I lived in Northern California for a number of years in the early 60's. However; if they plan on using the land to plant vineyards I don't see where erosion is an issue. Napa is on a bunch of hills and I don't remember hearing about a lot of erosion problems when I lived there because the vineyards could not hold the soil in place. Could it be that we are discussing an objection to free enterprise as opposed to reasonable environmental issues? Just thought I'de ask.
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I'm not talking any sorts of politics, I'm pretty close to clueless when it comes to that. I'm just bringing up the whole idea of how destructive we humans can be to get what we want. That's all.
 
Redwood Ryan said:
I'm not talking any sorts of politics, I'm pretty close to clueless when it comes to that. I'm just bringing up the whole idea of how destructive we humans can be to get what we want. That's all.
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That's true but we can also be pretty creative and constructive. If we didn't care we would not have all of these environmental laws etc.
 
Vance Wood said:
That's true but we can also be pretty creative and constructive. If we didn't care we would not have all of these environmental laws etc.
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I hear ya there, it's a never ending cycle.
 
Yes, they could have been required to plant trees elsewhere as mitigation for the project. However, studies show that it takes many decades for a newly planted/replanted area to reach the same ecological function as what was cut down. It will not provide the same habitat value for the wildlife using it for a long time.
They also won't provide for the same carbon exchange with the atmosphere.

Ecologically it would have been better to use existing farmland/fields if that was obtainable.



Please note the above statement is not, in any way meant to be political, nor express the views of any political party or environmental group. I expressly kept any mention of specific groups out of the discussion.
 
Paradox said:
Yes, they could have been required to plant trees elsewhere as mitigation for the project. However, studies show that it takes many decades for a newly planted/replanted area to reach the same ecological function as what was cut down. It will not provide the same habitat value for the wildlife using it for a long time.
They also won't provide for the same carbon exchange with the atmosphere.

Ecologically it would have been better to use existing farmland/fields if that was obtainable.



Please note the above statement is not, in any way meant to be political, nor express the views of any political party or environmental group. I expressly kept any mention of specific groups out of the discussion.
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But yet; to mention them is to invoke their presence. To mention politics is to acknowledge they may have a role in this discussion. This demonstrates the conundrum of our dilemma. If you desire to have a serious discussion about something it is almost guaranteed to contain a political element somewhere. This means you have to violate your own rule or, you have to ignore it or, you have to have someone who monitors everything said; and approves or disapproves every word on the basis of whether something is, or may become, political.

ARE WE HAVING FUN YET?
 
No I don't think we have to discuss politics to have a serious discussion on this topic.
Yes the democrats tend to be more environmentally minded than the republicans (There, I said it, shoot me).

Does being a democrat or a republican dictate your opinion on every single topic?
Do you not have a brain and can think for yourself independantly of which party you tend to affiliate with?


The OP asked what people here thought about cutting down 154 acres of forest for a vinyard.
He didn't ask what republicans vs democrats would think.

I don't need to put my political views on this discussion. The views I have on this topic have very little to do with my political views and more to do with my upbringing, education, personal interests in life and the things I find beautiful and stir my soul. There are times the two are related, yes but I can form and state an opinion without checking with the democrats or republicans first and without turning it into a political discussion. My "disclaimer" was an attempt at humor, but as usual it is lost in the medium (typed/print).

The problem isn't the discussion, the problem is that some people here can't have the discussion without becoming emotional, irrational and resorting to insults and name calling that turns into an ugly mess of hatred.
 
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Paradox said:
problem isn't the discussion, the problem is that some people here can't have the discussion without becoming emotional, irrational and resorting to insults and name calling that turns into and ugly mess of hatred.
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That right there is the problem.
 
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