Thread graft. To cut or not to cut.

Hartinez

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Welp. I’m Going on 3 years with this thread graft on a Siberian elm tree. Here’s the thread for it . I used a seedling from the tree itself but it just doesn’t seem to have taken. I tried to decrease the watering on the seedling in late summer early fall last year, but all of the leaves dried up and fell off. I thought I had killed it, but it flushed through at the end of last year and has pushed growth hard this year. I trimmed back the whole tree but did not cut black the graft. Thread grafts seem so fool proof, but I never claimed to be such. So maybe it could fail even if I continue to wait and wait??
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Hack Yeah!

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You've probably got more experience than me but I think you need to keep watering and fertilizing the seedling heavily until the exit side is noticeably larger in diameter. Good luck, I wouldn't imagine it would ever take as long as you've gone.
 

Hartinez

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You've probably got more experience than me but I think you need to keep watering and fertilizing the seedling heavily until the exit side is noticeably larger in diameter. Good luck, I wouldn't imagine it would ever take as long as you've gone.
Really though. I’ve spent the last 2 years feeding and watering. Blown away it’s taken this long.
 

Shibui

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Thread graft takes as long as it takes. One of the good points of this technique is that the scion will stay alive long enough for the graft to unite.
Time taken can be compounded by technique (or lack of?), growth (related to care as well as climate and individual differences in plants)

Trimming the tree but not the grafted branch should be a good way to divert extra growth to it and help the process. Looks like the grafted branch has filled the hole so I would guess it should unite this summer if you can maintain good care and good growth. Just give it this summer and see what it looks like after that.
 

Brian Van Fleet

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It does look like it’s taken. If it’s fatter on the exit side than the entrance side, it’s a good indication. I have scuffed the bark in a few places across the union just to expose the cambium and force them to knit further...lightly. I use the back of a knife and just lightly scape the bark across the graft in a few spots, like this:
40165899-FBEB-4196-88D1-6A58F00779D3.jpeg
And when it has healed over, start to take a few chunks out of the stock side of the graft to weaken it. I’d work to reduce the stock side in maybe August, and if the scion doesn’t weaken, separate in late September.
 

Hartinez

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Thread graft takes as long as it takes. One of the good points of this technique is that the scion will stay alive long enough for the graft to unite.
Time taken can be compounded by technique (or lack of?), growth (related to care as well as climate and individual differences in plants)

Trimming the tree but not the grafted branch should be a good way to divert extra growth to it and help the process. Looks like the grafted branch has filled the hole so I would guess it should unite this summer if you can maintain good care and good growth. Just give it this summer and see what it looks like after that.
Just seeing your reply as I forgot to check the “follow this thread box” Thanks shibui. I’m hopeful I’ll have it dialed in by summers end.
 

Hartinez

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It does look like it’s taken. If it’s fatter on the exit side than the entrance side, it’s a good indication. I have scuffed the bark in a few places across the union just to expose the cambium and force them to knit further...lightly. I use the back of a knife and just lightly scape the bark across the graft in a few spots, like this:
View attachment 375523
And when it has healed over, start to take a few chunks out of the stock side of the graft to weaken it. I’d work to reduce the stock side in maybe August, and if the scion doesn’t weaken, separate in late September.
Just seeing your message now. Thanks Brian. That is a good idea in regards to fusion on the exit side and I will def try that. Thanks for the reply.

on a side note, I’m def not going to make it all the way to BHam on this summers visit, but I contacted John down in Mobile and I’m going to stop by his garden one day for a beer (or 3)! BHam is 4 hrs plus from Diamondhead but only 45 minutes to mobile.
 

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And when it has healed over, start to take a few chunks out of the stock side of the graft to weaken it. I’d work to reduce the stock side in maybe August, and if the scion doesn’t weaken, separate in late September.
Ditto. This aspect is important, reducing reliance on the thread grafts own roots, increases the reliance on the graft and strengthens the union. Similar approach is often used on approach grafts to ensure the graft is well joined before separation.
 

Hartinez

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Ditto. This aspect is important, reducing reliance on the thread grafts own roots, increases the reliance on the graft and strengthens the union. Similar approach is often used on approach grafts to ensure the graft is well joined before separation.
Thanks Frank. I also as Brian suggested, have made light scratches between the two to force some healing. I will take stock of where I’m at in august and hopefully begin the separation!
 

atlarsenal

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@Brian Van Fleet could you explain what you mean by taking a few chunks? I understand the purpose but I can’t visualize the process.
And when it has healed over, start to take a few chunks out of the stock side of the graft to weaken it.
This is an approach graft I have going. The stock side is on the right.
A7D2C5E1-29AA-4CF5-924C-40FAF19B6E8D.jpeg
 
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Brian Van Fleet

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@Brian Van Fleet could you explain what you mean by taking a few chunks? I understand the purpose but I can’t visualize the process.
Like this. This is an approach graft, but the process is the same for a thread graft. You wouldn’t go this severe at once, but make the gap bigger every week if the scion doesn’t react to it. Eventually you can separate it entirely, knowing the scion has fully taken.
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atlarsenal

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Like this. This is an approach graft, but the process is the same for a thread graft. You wouldn’t go this severe at once, but make the gap bigger every week if the scion doesn’t react to it. Eventually you can separate it entirely, knowing the scion has fully taken.
View attachment 376126
View attachment 376127
Got ya! Thanks
 

Shibui

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I've been doing a similar thing but I just take off bark on one side of the scion rather than chopping deep into the wood but both ways will achieve the same result which is to encourage increasing reliance of the grafted part on the main trunk.
 

sorce

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Did you expose the Cambium of the scion when you started it?

Sorce
 

sorce

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Technical Foul!🤣

I didn't strip the last couple on my ficus and one did the same thing, it ended up breaking off with little force, likely due to the leverage caused by the bulge and weaker interior wood because it was holed up.

This is my greatest argument against grafting, extra sis ass bits...

Though I'm with BVF's method for extra security, I think you'd faster and safer just run another through the same hole proper.

"No half measures". That's Querqui!

Sorce
 

Hartinez

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Technical Foul!🤣

I didn't strip the last couple on my ficus and one did the same thing, it ended up breaking off with little force, likely due to the leverage caused by the bulge and weaker interior wood because it was holed up.

This is my greatest argument against grafting, extra sis ass bits...

Though I'm with BVF's method for extra security, I think you'd faster and safer just run another through the same hole proper.

"No half measures". That's Querqui!

Sorce
But I think i did! I just can’t remember for sure! I’m pretty sure this one will take. 🤞
 

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