Thuja Occidentalis "Golden Globe" Progression 😅

MeDupree

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Hello Folks!!

New here, brief intro...I've always admired bonsai but recently decided to go hands-on last Spring. I have collected a bunch of cheap material from different nurseries and garden centers mostly on discount due to different variables in relation to my newbie status and lack of knowledge and equipment.

That being said, wish I'd found this great resource sooner(I've really eff'ed some stuff up)!! I hope to learn and progress in this art by creating some interesting collaborations with nature.

Discount grab from the holiday bin. Thuja occidentalis golden globe. I hope to get some insight into designing this tree. It seems like there's plenty lessons to be learned here. Feel free to offer guidance, thanks in advance:

Fresh from the Depot I bought this 1/3/23 for $15. I cleaned around the base a bit and it seems interesting so far

20230104_072350.jpg


Yesterday, I started removing lower branches and debris to reveal more of it's form.

20230104_072434.jpg

Today, I removed a little more after work(chasing that sunset). This weekend I'll finish cleaning it up a little more to let light in and then I'll let it rest until the summer when I'll mess with the roots a bit...don't wanna go to crazy before I know what lies below!

20230105_171808.jpg
 
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BrightsideB

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Welcome! When I started I got one similar. They are hard to contain. I almost killed mine. It recovered after three years and now it’s going in the ground in the landscape. But I think it is good to start with cheep affordable material you don’t mind losing. Just practicing the techniques takes practice to get good. As well as the horticultural end it takes experience and practice to understand what works and doesn’t.

It looks like it has a good windswept form. This is a good place for advice and to talk bonsai. As a beginner don’t take it to seriously or become attached to a tree. It’s all about learning and practicality. I had bought several trees when I started that were nice and I almost killed them. I didn’t let it go and it affected me negatively. But it’s because I was inexperienced. Now if I had those tree’s I’d never of done what I did lol.
 

Kanorin

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Welcome to the site! Your tree has lots of interesting movement in the first few inches. That's great!

I recommend you do the root work in spring as that gives the tree plenty of time to recover and generate new roots before the summer heat. Probably between mid-March and early April in your climate. After that you could do some work to "chase back" the foliage to some of the greenery farther on the interior of your branches. If the tree is growing strongly in spring, you could do a bit of this work in late May or early June, but might be safer to wait until September to do that work if it's recovering from a repot.
 

MeDupree

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Welcome! When I started I got one similar. They are hard to contain. I almost killed mine. It recovered after three years and now it’s going in the ground in the landscape. But I think it is good to start with cheep affordable material you don’t mind losing. Just practicing the techniques takes practice to get good. As well as the horticultural end it takes experience and practice to understand what works and doesn’t.

It looks like it has a good windswept form. This is a good place for advice and to talk bonsai. As a beginner don’t take it to seriously or become attached to a tree. It’s all about learning and practicality. I had bought several trees when I started that were nice and I almost killed them. I didn’t let it go and it affected me negatively. But it’s because I was inexperienced. Now if I had those tree’s I’d never of done what I did lol.

Thank you, I definitely understand that some teachers are gentle while others will knock you on the noggin when they feel the need! So far I've struggled the most with Pine and Juniper, completely my fault for simply flying by the seat of my pants at the time (lesson in arrogance and patience for sure). I have a Thuja in my landscape but the foliage is flatter than this one which reminds me of a small Hinoke I have with this more stringy foliage. I too was thinking this lends itself to a windswept/multi-trunk design for now at least.
 

MeDupree

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Welcome to the site! Your tree has lots of interesting movement in the first few inches. That's great!

I recommend you do the root work in spring as that gives the tree plenty of time to recover and generate new roots before the summer heat. Probably between mid-March and early April in your climate. After that you could do some work to "chase back" the foliage to some of the greenery farther on the interior of your branches. If the tree is growing strongly in spring, you could do a bit of this work in late May or early June, but might be safer to wait until September to do that work if it's recovering from a repot.

Thanks, I'll wait a few months to tackle that root ball for sure. Are you thinking I should leave it like it is for now or could remove some of the top to open it up? I'm thinking I could remove at least a few of the bigger branches up top right now. Late summer 2023, wire and prune some of the smaller branches as I get a better idea of a design.
 

Kanorin

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Thanks, I'll wait a few months to tackle that root ball for sure. Are you thinking I should leave it like it is for now or could remove some of the top to open it up? I'm thinking I could remove at least a few of the bigger branches up top right now. Late summer 2023, wire and prune some of the smaller branches as I get a better idea of a design.
Foliage and especially nice healthy elongating growth tips provide two very beneficial things for growing roots to aid in recovery following repotting.
1. Energy via photosynthesis
2. A hormone called Auxin which is sort of how the top of the tree communicates with the roots to stimulate more root growth

So the trick is to reduce the roots (30-40% is a good starting point) in March while leaving the foliage intact. Then a few months or even a year later (depending on how quickly the tree rebounds) you can do some significant reductions to the foliage mass. In years where the tree is not being repotted, you can be a little bit more aggressive in reducing the foliage.
 

skot

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Great start! I find that these take pretty well to hedge pruning to chase the growing tips more compact, and then wiring out the choice branches. Have fun!
 

Frozentreehugger

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Patience patience patience . Is step one . Largest mistake even more experienced people do . Is shorten the roots to much . Reduce the foliage to much . Wire and bent the trunk to much and go it’s on its way to a bonsai . Then it’s dead in a few months . The more experience you have the faster you can work at this. But bonsai takes time time to learn time to grow . Time to understand what to do next . Biggest advice I have is in 10 or 15 years it will not matter haw fast you advanced the tree in the first 3 years . Early this spring prepare a box . Converted plastic container . Homemade wood box is very good . 3 times the size in diameter of the pot it is in and 1/3 as deep . Good starting point . Lots of drainage holes cornered u. Screen like a bonsai pot . Repot the tree into that comb out the roots trim very little . Maybe 20 percent . Concentrate on the roots that go down under the trunk . Spread the roots around the trunk be gentle disturbing the fine roots but spread them . In the box . Use a fast draining bonsai soil . Look here this does not have to be expensive soil . Secure the tree so it don’t move watch sone repairing vids ir ask if your not sure You can shorten some of the foliage but again very little . Branches that are long with side branches further back . Along the branch can have the growing tip removed . Mainly just the branches shading the interior . Put the tree in the shade for a few weeks . Start to move it into more light as it starts to push growth . Learn how to water the tree and how often learn how the tree uses water . Many I mean many bonsai masters have correctly stated . The hardest thing to learn is watering . Thuja. Is a water loving tree but learn how not to drown it . As you water take the time to study the tree . Watch how it grows . Think about a direction or style . Form a plan . Think how big you want the tree .
Take pictures . Modify the pictures . Ir cut off branches to see what it looks like . When you think you have a style or idea what to remove . And what will make the tree look best . Stop and start all over . Come up with at least 3 ideas . Do nothing until you do . Learn how to keep the tree alive and get it thriving . Maybe big. Maybe . A further reduction in foliage . Ie a light hair cut in mid summer . A lot of people will advice you to move faster . But I promise you . The following spring you will have learned a lot . And have a healthy tree that will be ready for more serious work . And you will have ideas on what that work should be . There are multiple ways to move faster learn less and kill the tree without even learning what you did wrong .
 

MeDupree

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Patience patience patience . Is step one . Largest mistake even more experienced people do . Is shorten the roots to much . Reduce the foliage to much . Wire and bent the trunk to much and go it’s on its way to a bonsai . Then it’s dead in a few months . The more experience you have the faster you can work at this. But bonsai takes time time to learn time to grow . Time to understand what to do next . Biggest advice I have is in 10 or 15 years it will not matter haw fast you advanced the tree in the first 3 years . Early this spring prepare a box . Converted plastic container . Homemade wood box is very good . 3 times the size in diameter of the pot it is in and 1/3 as deep . Good starting point . Lots of drainage holes cornered u. Screen like a bonsai pot . Repot the tree into that comb out the roots trim very little . Maybe 20 percent . Concentrate on the roots that go down under the trunk . Spread the roots around the trunk be gentle disturbing the fine roots but spread them . In the box . Use a fast draining bonsai soil . Look here this does not have to be expensive soil . Secure the tree so it don’t move watch sone repairing vids ir ask if your not sure You can shorten some of the foliage but again very little . Branches that are long with side branches further back . Along the branch can have the growing tip removed . Mainly just the branches shading the interior . Put the tree in the shade for a few weeks . Start to move it into more light as it starts to push growth . Learn how to water the tree and how often learn how the tree uses water . Many I mean many bonsai masters have correctly stated . The hardest thing to learn is watering . Thuja. Is a water loving tree but learn how not to drown it . As you water take the time to study the tree . Watch how it grows . Think about a direction or style . Form a plan . Think how big you want the tree .
Take pictures . Modify the pictures . Ir cut off branches to see what it looks like . When you think you have a style or idea what to remove . And what will make the tree look best . Stop and start all over . Come up with at least 3 ideas . Do nothing until you do . Learn how to keep the tree alive and get it thriving . Maybe big. Maybe . A further reduction in foliage . Ie a light hair cut in mid summer . A lot of people will advice you to move faster . But I promise you . The following spring you will have learned a lot . And have a healthy tree that will be ready for more serious work . And you will have ideas on what that work should be . There are multiple ways to move faster learn less and kill the tree without even learning what you did wrong .
 

MeDupree

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Patience patience patience . Is step one . Largest mistake even more experienced people do . Is shorten the roots to much . Reduce the foliage to much . Wire and bent the trunk to much and go it’s on its way to a bonsai . Then it’s dead in a few months . The more experience you have the faster you can work at this. But bonsai takes time time to learn time to grow . Time to understand what to do next . Biggest advice I have is in 10 or 15 years it will not matter haw fast you advanced the tree in the first 3 years . Early this spring prepare a box . Converted plastic container . Homemade wood box is very good . 3 times the size in diameter of the pot it is in and 1/3 as deep . Good starting point . Lots of drainage holes cornered u. Screen like a bonsai pot . Repot the tree into that comb out the roots trim very little . Maybe 20 percent . Concentrate on the roots that go down under the trunk . Spread the roots around the trunk be gentle disturbing the fine roots but spread them . In the box . Use a fast draining bonsai soil . Look here this does not have to be expensive soil . Secure the tree so it don’t move watch sone repairing vids ir ask if your not sure You can shorten some of the foliage but again very little . Branches that are long with side branches further back . Along the branch can have the growing tip removed . Mainly just the branches shading the interior . Put the tree in the shade for a few weeks . Start to move it into more light as it starts to push growth . Learn how to water the tree and how often learn how the tree uses water . Many I mean many bonsai masters have correctly stated . The hardest thing to learn is watering . Thuja. Is a water loving tree but learn how not to drown it . As you water take the time to study the tree . Watch how it grows . Think about a direction or style . Form a plan . Think how big you want the tree .
Take pictures . Modify the pictures . Ir cut off branches to see what it looks like . When you think you have a style or idea what to remove . And what will make the tree look best . Stop and start all over . Come up with at least 3 ideas . Do nothing until you do . Learn how to keep the tree alive and get it thriving . Maybe big. Maybe . A further reduction in foliage . Ie a light hair cut in mid summer . A lot of people will advice you to move faster . But I promise you . The following spring you will have learned a lot . And have a healthy tree that will be ready for more serious work . And you will have ideas on what that work should be . There are multiple ways to move faster learn less and kill the tree without even learning what you did wrong .

Definitely learning the stages matter a lot and have to consider how the nature works at each step. This Spring I definitely want to spread out those roots, I can see they're a mess already. Also want to tilt it upright a bit more and get it in that looser soil mix. I'll take more pics from a few angles to start getting the direction more composed at that time. For now I can start looking at some box constructions to get a jump on that much. Thank you
 

Frozentreehugger

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Have to admit was thinking the foliage does not look like thuja . Did sone checking multiple pics of golden globe look like golden versions of thuja . Yours looks to thin around the stem not the fan shape of thuja . But the ACS pic of the cultivar ( which I trust more ) looks very much like yours
 

Frozentreehugger

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If your wondering what my recommendation for step 2 is . If all goes well this year and it is happy growing after the repot . I would start a fairly aggressive fertilization routine . This summer . Then one year from spring repot when it has established itself in its pot your going to aggressively reduce the foliage . With a design goal . This will stimulate your best one time shot at back budding . And start to style from there . They do not back bud in old wood in any reliable fashion . But the tree is young . And with healthy roots in a good growing condition the aggressive trim will get you the best shot . If the tree is not vigorous wait one more year
 

MeDupree

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If your wondering what my recommendation for step 2 is . If all goes well this year and it is happy growing after the repot . I would start a fairly aggressive fertilization routine . This summer . Then one year from spring repot when it has established itself in its pot your going to aggressively reduce the foliage . With a design goal . This will stimulate your best one time shot at back budding . And start to style from there . They do not back bud in old wood in any reliable fashion . But the tree is young . And with healthy roots in a good growing condition the aggressive trim will get you the best shot . If the tree is not vigorous wait one more year

Awesome, I'm glad I didn't go too crazy with the pruning. When you say fairly aggressive fertilizing, would that be a slow release like Osmocote in the soil with a drink of miracle grow once every week in summer? This year could I repot in a colander until the third or fourth year?? If not, what's a good size grow box for this? I believe that's a 3 gallon nursery pot which is filled with roots.
 

Frozentreehugger

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Awesome, I'm glad I didn't go too crazy with the pruning. When you say fairly aggressive fertilizing, would that be a slow release like Osmocote in the soil with a drink of miracle grow once every week in summer? This year could I repot in a colander until the third or fourth year?? If not, what's a good size grow box for this? I believe that's a 3 gallon nursery pot which is filled with roots.
I have never used osmocote. But others here have . I believe you but it on the soil not in it . MG and fish emulsion work well . I prefer to use weak mixtures . So instead of mg once a week I would mix it 1/5 strength and feed it 5 days straight then a few days with plain water . But that’s just me The flush with water removes leftover . Fert . Basically I water with a garden hose . And fert with a can . Fertilizer in the rain barrel . I recommended to you pot about 3 times the size of the nursery container and 1/3 the death . Depending on what you find in the roots you can go a little smaller . But bigger grow boxes help trees in development . Can leave them longer . Thuja does not heal wounds well . Don’t bother with paste . The wood of eastern thuja is one of the most rot resistant woods in eastern North America . Heavily used were you need contact with wet . They make very good deadwood in bonsai . Wild trees are often collected with heavy amount of dead wood . So if you cut off a branch you are best to leave a section and carve it into deadwood . This is a natural look for these trees . Pic is a wild collected thuja of mine minority of the tree is deadwood
 

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MeDupree

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I have never used osmocote. But others here have . I believe you but it on the soil not in it . MG and fish emulsion work well . I prefer to use weak mixtures . So instead of mg once a week I would mix it 1/5 strength and feed it 5 days straight then a few days with plain water . But that’s just me The flush with water removes leftover . Fert . Basically I water with a garden hose . And fert with a can . Fertilizer in the rain barrel . I recommended to you pot about 3 times the size of the nursery container and 1/3 the death . Depending on what you find in the roots you can go a little smaller . But bigger grow boxes help trees in development . Can leave them longer . Thuja does not heal wounds well . Don’t bother with paste . The wood of eastern thuja is one of the most rot resistant woods in eastern North America . Heavily used were you need contact with wet . They make very good deadwood in bonsai . Wild trees are often collected with heavy amount of dead wood . So if you cut off a branch you are best to leave a section and carve it into deadwood . This is a natural look for these trees . Pic is a wild collected thuja of mine minority of the tree is deadwood
Whoa, love that wood! I found a simple box design to use. I'm thinking 15x15x5 for the size.
 

Frozentreehugger

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Whoa, love that wood! I found a simple box design to use. I'm thinking 15x15x5 for the size.
Sounds good for the size . Maybe a bit thinner . Idea is to get the roots to spread and increase the base of the trunk . There is a thread started on mine . Called Yama beaver . Good example of patience needed . Tree was found on a granite slop beside a beaver pond . The beaver chewed the top off it was in his way . To slide trees down the rock . When collected there was no soil around base all slide into pond . Tree was mostly dead . The one live vein . Had roots go up the slope to soil . . I. Spring I will have had it 8 years . Roots and foliuge were far from trunk . Taken that long to induce vigor and shorten the roots . And get growth closer to trunk .
This spring starts getting better styled . The pic is not good . I have just been slowly picking the seat bark off but by bit . Again patience . Need time to grow roots and foliage . Why hurry with the dead wood I have allowed sone to just age naturally for character
 

Frozentreehugger

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Sounds good for the size . Maybe a bit thinner . Idea is to get the roots to spread and increase the base of the trunk . There is a thread started on mine . Called Yama beaver . Good example of patience needed . Tree was found on a granite slop beside a beaver pond . The beaver chewed the top off it was in his way . To slide trees down the rock . When collected there was no soil around base all slide into pond . Tree was mostly dead . The one live vein . Had roots go up the slope to soil . . I. Spring I will have had it 8 years . Roots and foliuge were far from trunk . Taken that long to induce vigor and shorten the roots . And get growth closer to trunk .
This spring starts getting better styled . The pic is not good . I have just been slowly picking the seat bark off but by bit . Again patience . Need time to grow roots and foliage . Why hurry with the dead wood I have allowed sone to just age naturally for character
Mine is surprisingly old . Yours will respond faster . Also your starting with healthy tree
 

MeDupree

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Sounds good for the size . Maybe a bit thinner . Idea is to get the roots to spread and increase the base of the trunk . There is a thread started on mine . Called Yama beaver . Good example of patience needed . Tree was found on a granite slop beside a beaver pond . The beaver chewed the top off it was in his way . To slide trees down the rock . When collected there was no soil around base all slide into pond . Tree was mostly dead . The one live vein . Had roots go up the slope to soil . . I. Spring I will have had it 8 years . Roots and foliuge were far from trunk . Taken that long to induce vigor and shorten the roots . And get growth closer to trunk .
This spring starts getting better styled . The pic is not good . I have just been slowly picking the seat bark off but by bit . Again patience . Need time to grow roots and foliage . Why hurry with the dead wood I have allowed sone to just age naturally for character
Thanks I'm going to read and watch that thread, very interesting I hope to take a collection trip or two some day. Im glad that you say that as the size of the frame I've made is around 20 inches with a depth of 4 inches. I'll really need to loosen those roots up, plan is to saw off the bottom 10% and trim out the thicker downward roots. Hopefully I can get them all in the remaining 10% but also accept this is a gradual process and that might not happen.
 

MeDupree

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Keep looking at this foliage compared to a hinoki cypress I have and I really think it may have been tagged incorrectly. That being said, I'm looking at May for a repot and air layer.
 

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