Tilting pot to deal with constant rain.

[Mike Corazzi]

I'm misunderstanding the suggestions to tilt pots to deal with excessive rainy weather.

Wouldn't tilting the pot make the water pool to the tilted side whereas leaving it level keeps the drain holes in the center where they can drain the water?

 

[Dav4]

I'm misunderstanding the suggestions to tilt pots to deal with excessive rainy weather.

Wouldn't tilting the pot make the water pool to the tilted side whereas leaving it level keeps the drain holes in the center where they can drain the water?

Tipping the pot reduces the area of the pot subject to the perched water effect and effectively allows more water to drain out of the side drainage holes....

 

[Mike Corazzi]

Tipping the pot reduces the area of the pot subject to the perched water effect and effectively allows more water to drain out of the side drainage holes....

Aha! Now I see.

Where can I buy some ceramic drill bits?

 

[JoeH]

^^ Lowes, they have bits for tile, I convert ceramic dishes to bonsai dishes all the time.

 

[Random Usr]

Where can I buy some ceramic drill bits?

Any place that sells tools.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

I'm not planning to drill any pots. That was directed at Dav4's wink post.

 

[Bonsai Mike]

Would keeping a pot tilted long term cause any issues? I have been thinking about trying to keep a wedge under a tree I styled based on its future growing angle. It is much more pleasing to look at.

I noticed how much better drainage was from the nursery pot out of the side. The concept makes total sense to help with rain.

 

[Shima]

Would keeping a pot tilted long term cause any issues? I have been thinking about trying to keep a wedge under a tree I styled based on its future growing angle. It is much more pleasing to look at.

I noticed how much better drainage was from the nursery pot out of the side. The concept makes total sense to help with rain.

Sure. There would always be a pool of H20 at the low end of the pot. Hardly worth the effort.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Tipping the pot reduces the area of the pot subject to the perched water effect and effectively allows more water to drain out of the side drainage holes....

IF having side drain holes. As mentioned before in several threads free draining substrate eliminates need for tilting pot.

 

[Dav4]

IF having side drain holes. As mentioned before in several threads free draining substrate eliminates need for tilting pot.

Well yeah, tilting the pot and not having side holes doesn't really help much. Also, perched water tables and free draining substrate aren't mutually exclusive. I still tilt certain pots- usually more shallow ones- during very wet periods.

 

[Random Usr]

..... Hardly worth the effort.

Tilting the pot? I agree. Proper soil mixture and enough holes in the bottom of the pot. That's the key. The only time I would tilt a pot is if it's in a training pot at the wrong angle and I am trying to coax roots to grow in a specific direction. If the soil is compacted or root bound then I'd airiate the soil by probing it through with a screwdriver, chop sticks or something suitable. Tilting it? Well, I guess there might be some advantage in certain circumstances but i've never done it.

 

[rockm]

I wouldn't poo-poo the idea so quickly. I've seen quite a bit of excess water drain away from some pots when they're tilted after they've been left to "drain" flat...Try it after a heavy rain and your pots have stopped dripping from the bottom. You might be surprised.

 

[Random Usr]

I wouldn't poo-poo the idea so quickly. I've seen quite a bit of excess water drain away from some pots when they're tilted after they've been left to "drain" flat...Try it after a heavy rain and your pots have stopped dripping from the bottom. You might be surprised.

"poo-poo"? That's a funny expression. I am just trying to think logically and I just can't think of a situation where tilting the pot is necessary if the tree is being taken care of. I am sure there are always tiny pools of water left at the bottom of the average pot until it is really dry and that they are probably not dangerous. If you syphon the water from one of those pools it would be next to nothing. Of course, if you tilt the pot at a 90 degree angle you will get the water from all of those pools at once and that could be what you said "might surprise me".

I recently saw a video where the guy says that a thin gravel bottom is useless. I don't think it is useless. If we are worried about small pools in the bottom of the pot (creating drenched soil) then what is wrong with a gravel bottom? And if you've got a gravel bottom and the soil is still drenched then the problem is more severe. I don't see how tilting the pot is going to help. Anyway, by tilting the pot less than 90 degrees there will be water collected in the corners anyway. So OK we can drill holes in all four corners too. But I think that is exaggerating.

Everything here is my opinion. I am not a professional bonsai gardener or a master. So if you think what I've written is silly please tell me. I am always willing to learn and improve my trees.

 

[just.wing.it]

I have some pots that I will not only tilt, but actually pick up and flip over, more than 90 deg, to drain excessive water, if there has been excessive rain....
I'm always amazed at how much water drains out...
It's the capillary action of water that holds it in the pot, instead of draining out the bottom holes...with inorganic substrate.
I don't see the need for a "drainage layer", although there may be something to say about a larger particle size having less surface area, and that fact alone may decrease the amount of water that can be held via capillary action....??
I dunno.

 

[Dav4]

"poo-poo"? That's a funny expression. I am just trying to think logically and I just can't think of a situation where tilting the pot is necessary if the tree is being taken care of. I am sure there are always tiny pools of water left at the bottom of the average pot until it is really dry and that they are probably not dangerous. If you syphon the water from one of those pools it would be next to nothing. Of course, if you tilt the pot at a 90 degree angle you will get the water from all of those pools at once and that could be what you said "might surprise me".

I recently saw a video where the guy says that a thin gravel bottom is useless. I don't think it is useless. If we are worried about small pools in the bottom of the pot (creating drenched soil) then what is wrong with a gravel bottom? And if you've got a gravel bottom and the soil is still drenched then the problem is more severe. I don't see how tilting the pot is going to help. Anyway, by tilting the pot less than 90 degrees there will be water collected in the corners anyway. So OK we can drill holes in all four corners too. But I think that is exaggerating.

Everything here is my opinion. I am not a professional bonsai gardener or a master. So if you think what I've written is silly please tell me. I am always willing to learn and improve my trees.

Pot dimensions are the most important thing to consider, even with well draining soil. In deeper pots, only a small fraction of the soil volume will be subject to the perched water effect, while in a shallow pot, perhaps 50% or more could be. It's a real thing, and I've had root issues with some of my trees placed in shallow pots despite using completely inorganic, granular soil components.

 

[Shima]

there will be water collected in the corners anyway.

Is this not a problem? I have only one pot with holes right at the edge. Nice big ones too. An old Sanshu Ichiyo. None of my others have holes anywhere near the sides. So in a storm of many days we have roots sitting in a pool of H20, eh? This can't be good.

 

[Dav4]

Is this not a problem? I have only one pot with holes right at the edge. Nice big ones too. An old Sanshu Ichiyo. None of my others have holes anywhere near the sides. So in a storm of many days we have roots sitting in a pool of H20, eh? This can't be good. View attachment 166459 View attachment 166460

That's a sweet pot!!

 

[Shima]

That's a sweet pot!!

Ryan Bell asked me if I knew what I had. It became my most valuable pot!

 

[sparklemotion]

This image is how I understand "perched water tables" to work in pots.

Compare how much water there is in A and B. If you assume that the roots colonize the whole pot, and the top of the pot is up in A, and on the side where the letter B is in B, you can see that there's a lot more volume for dry roots in B.

In real life, the position of the drainage holes will make a difference (if there is one hole in the center of the bottom face, the water wouldn't be able to drain to the line in B). As does the capillary action of the soil mix -- fast draining soils shouldn't have significant PWT problems at all.

I've never *seen* a PWT (I am very tempted to find some clear cylinders, slap some screen on the bottom fill with soil and take some pictures). But I have definitely experienced watering a pot with no side drainage holes, letting it drain, then having it drain even more as I tip it side to side.

 

[discusmike]

I switch sides also when leaving pots tilted for awhile,you will literally see the water coming out the holes when picking the opposite side up,and you need to perch it up on a steep angle if its steady rain for days,seems to drain better for me