to decandle or not

linlaoboo

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hi my goal is to allow these Scott pines to thicken up the quickest way possible. I read the other post but mine are growing ground and not in a pot. should i decandle or not or only some but not others? i see los of candles and some buds. Sorry Im new at the botany of pines
 

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Brian Van Fleet

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Decandle the branches you want to incorporate as final branches, and let sacrifice branches grow to thicken the tree.
 

painter

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what about spring candles? should we shorten the really long ones? and make them close to the size of other candles on the pine? to help balance energy? as opposed to "de candling" a little later
painter
 

painter

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if you look at the lower branch on the one pine you can see much smaller spring extension, should i worry about early balancing, or just do the 10 10 10 day method
 

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painter

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sorry to hijack your thread op
my apologies. i was just thinking about this and am in a similar situation, my pines are a little further along, and then you posted . thanks, and sorry.
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linlaoboo

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no worries, total newbie to pines with lots to learn. I like your collection

sorry to hijack your thread op
my apologies. i was just thinking about this and am in a similar situation, my pines are a little further along, and then you posted . thanks, and sorry.
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Vance Wood

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what about spring candles? should we shorten the really long ones? and make them close to the size of other candles on the pine? to help balance energy? as opposed to "de candling" a little later
painter

You can pretty much do what ever you want to do but these are Scots Pines and the technique you are alluding to is for Japanese Blake Pines.
 

Vance Wood

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if you look at the lower branch on the one pine you can see much smaller spring extension, should i worry about early balancing, or just do the 10 10 10 day method

Don't worry about the Hijack it is all related and pertinent. You have come up with one of the classic suggestions of bad things to do at the wrong time in a tree's development. This is not your fault or necessarily a condemnation. For years the gospel of two needle Pine cultivation has centered around an abundance of information concerning the cultivation of Japanese Black Pine. For years this model of behavior has been suggested to work on all two needle Pines and in Japan it indeed does. The Japanese Red Pine can be treated the same way. Therefor; the assumption by many has been that this was the way to handle all two needle Pines, when on a world stage this is not true with World trees. When you start talking about the finer points of cultivation you will find out quickly that Scots Pines and Mugo Pines will not conform to those models and in many case fail badly. It is true you can force a Scots and or a Mugo to perform some of these tricks occasionally, over the long haul they will not, and across the species they will not. The importance of a technique is consistent repeatability.

Balancing growth and energy and managing needle length are all things related to trees that are in second or third stage development with developed branches and trunk line. As I understand it--- you, and several others, are still trying to develop growth and ramification while attempting to use finishing techniques to accomplish those goals. Right now you need a bon-fire not a pastry burner. You only worry about balancing energy with Scots Pines until you have established the basic form headed toward a finished form. The truth is, that in my experience Scots Pines pretty much balance their own futures without some of the things that have to be done to the more vigorous JBP. While I am thinking about it: Scots Pines have a strong tendency to back bud on bare wood something most Black Pines are loath to do. Just another difference. The real problem is this: Many who are real experts and masters with JBP will not acknowledge or research the differences between JBP, Scots Pine or Mugo Pine. The assumption remains, like the old Medieval Church, where one could buy themselves out of purgatory. True or not, any argument about it becomes an attack on the entire institution. When one attacks what another consideres a doctrine you can expect a disagreement.

I know there are probably going to be several who will passionately disagree with me here and I probably should have kept my thoughts to myself but the question remains: Why do you not see more finished Scots Pine Bonsai?
 
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Vance Wood

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Thanks for your support Neli. I don't know, maybe I'm just paranoid, but it seems that every time I post something like this "the admisistration" buries it as quickly as they can?
 
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Poink88

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Just to re-enforce what BVF, Scott, and Vance are saying which are all very consistent. ;)
 

painter

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thanks vance. it is a pitch pine tho.
i agree with what you are saying, and it is funny what you say about that. because i have been told by two very professional people one being boon , to treat it like a black pine. and the other pro said to treat it like a white pine. so last year i treated it like a black pine and had this response.

but a club member who has many pitch pine say you cannot treat it like a black pine more than 2 yrs in a row. said it will die in the 3 rd year. im still collecting info tho. and didnt want to over stress it.
thanks
painter
 

Vance Wood

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thanks vance. it is a pitch pine tho.
i agree with what you are saying, and it is funny what you say about that. because i have been told by two very professional people one being boon , to treat it like a black pine. and the other pro said to treat it like a white pine. so last year i treated it like a black pine and had this response.

but a club member who has many pitch pine say you cannot treat it like a black pine more than 2 yrs in a row. said it will die in the 3 rd year. im still collecting info tho. and didnt want to over stress it.
thanks
painter

Pitch Pines are a peculiar birds they are three needle but I believe they only have one flush of growth a season. I am thinking that they should do well treated like single flush Pines like the Scots Pine, understanding how well they back bud on very old wood.
 

jeanluc83

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Pitch Pines are a peculiar birds ...

You got that right. Pitch pine are one of the few evergreens that will sprout from a bare stump. It is rare that the tree survives more than a year or two though.

...a club member who has many pitch pine say you cannot treat it like a black pine more than 2 yrs in a row. said it will die in the 3 rd year. im still collecting info tho. and didnt want to over stress it.

I’m just getting into pitch pines but what I have read indicates that they can be treated like JBP but with slightly less predictability. I have also found it recommended that you let it rest every 3rd year. I think this would need to be taken on a tree by tree basis. For very vigorously growing trees you may be able to stretch it out more years. I’ve found it recommended that JBP also be allowed to rest periodically to regain vigor. When I doubt listen to the tree.
 
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