Hey everyone I'm super new to bonsai and a few months ago I got for my first bonsai a Chinese Juniper from nursery stock. I hadn't done a lot of research when I started styling it. My question is, my Juniper has a very narrow trunk and branches, should I let the tree focus on developing a thicker trunk and branch system and wait to pot it in a training or bonsai pot or go ahead and re pot it in the spring??? If I should wait to put it in a bonsai pot should I do anything at all to it or keep it as is and just feed as usual for nutrients? Thanks to anyone with ideas!
To pot or not to pot?....That is the question
- Thread starter Hannahmm
- Start date
Tieball
Masterpiece
Well...there are Juniper experts here. Hopefully you’ll get Juniper advice. My thoughts....
- I would let it gain health, grow thicker and not put it in a bonsai pot.
- Training box? If good sized it can help your tree's growth. Growing in the ground will be faster if you have a ground space.
- One of my objectives would be to get foliage in closer to the trunk on those branches....and I don’t exactly know the back-budding characteristics. As the tree grows...that foliage will be kicked out even further.
- I would definitely examine the soil. Nursery stock soil may or may not be excellent.
- The tree will belong outdoors all year...not an indoor tree (you’ll kill it indoors).
- Research Juniper Bonsai styles on Google to find a target direction that you like.
- Listen to advice if you’re replanting the tree in anything. Find out what level of disturbance you can cause for the roots before wreckless health departure.
- Nice wiring. Seriously....nicely done. Keep an eye on the branches for unwanted wire cut-in. That left branch has some growth room between the branch and wire. Excellent. The other wiring seems tight now....but that may just be my view....you have the tree in front of you for evaluation.
Where is Bend? ....like South Bend, Indiana? Just curious.
- I would let it gain health, grow thicker and not put it in a bonsai pot.
- Training box? If good sized it can help your tree's growth. Growing in the ground will be faster if you have a ground space.
- One of my objectives would be to get foliage in closer to the trunk on those branches....and I don’t exactly know the back-budding characteristics. As the tree grows...that foliage will be kicked out even further.
- I would definitely examine the soil. Nursery stock soil may or may not be excellent.
- The tree will belong outdoors all year...not an indoor tree (you’ll kill it indoors).
- Research Juniper Bonsai styles on Google to find a target direction that you like.
- Listen to advice if you’re replanting the tree in anything. Find out what level of disturbance you can cause for the roots before wreckless health departure.
- Nice wiring. Seriously....nicely done. Keep an eye on the branches for unwanted wire cut-in. That left branch has some growth room between the branch and wire. Excellent. The other wiring seems tight now....but that may just be my view....you have the tree in front of you for evaluation.
Where is Bend? ....like South Bend, Indiana? Just curious.
Fishtank307
Shohin
The tree should develop a thicker trunk if you let the top grow freely (I think. I'm definitely not an expert, but I know this is true on pines. Junipers, maybe).
The soil is probably pretty damp and doesn't drain well.. So the question is indeed: to repot or not? If you repot next spring, I wouldn't cut any roots. Just put in the ground or in a larger pot with some pumice or a good draining soil mix and then let it grow. Or let it recover for another year in the same pot. Either way, this tree has a long way to go. But that's the fun part of growing bonsai; noticing small changes, paying attention to details, not wanting immediate result.
You could also choose one of the branches as a new leader. You'd have to bend the top sideways and one of the branches upward. The branch would then be the new top of the tree. The advantage of this technique is that it creates a nice tapering trunk.
The soil is probably pretty damp and doesn't drain well.. So the question is indeed: to repot or not? If you repot next spring, I wouldn't cut any roots. Just put in the ground or in a larger pot with some pumice or a good draining soil mix and then let it grow. Or let it recover for another year in the same pot. Either way, this tree has a long way to go. But that's the fun part of growing bonsai; noticing small changes, paying attention to details, not wanting immediate result.
You could also choose one of the branches as a new leader. You'd have to bend the top sideways and one of the branches upward. The branch would then be the new top of the tree. The advantage of this technique is that it creates a nice tapering trunk.
Thank you so much for your advice Juniper expert or not!
I thought about planting in the ground this fall just out of the pot into the ground without disrupting anything but wasn't sure the sock consequences.
Training box? I have seen Litter boxes used with holes drilled?? If so then should I wait till the recommended repotting time for fastest recovery?
Yeah, that is where the lack of research got me...I was not aware at the time of styling, that Junipers are not always the best for back budding =/ but, some of that bare branch was not avoidable because of the nature of the specimen.
Yes, NO INDOOR JUNIPERS!!
A marathon that is what Bonsai is! I love it! I don't need instant results so I'm more than happy to give the tree what it needs to help with growth and development and health and wait. Better results will come of it and therefore, in the long run, things will happen "faster".
I think I might try the training box idea even though planting it in the ground might be better, only because my Husband and I move often enough that I would hate to double disturb the poor tree in one year. Again probably waiting tell the recommended Spring for recoveries sake? The top I picked was just a branch that I am aware of because the "top" looked like it had been cut off?? The soil isn't as bad for drainage as my other nursery tree a Colorado blue spruce it isn't lacking in trunk at all! 1" 1/2 wide trunk at the base and a little over 3 1/2" diameter, didn't think that was too shabby for a 13" tall tree... and nicer bark development.
Thanks so much for your advice!
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Tieball
Masterpiece
Ahhhhh. Bend, OR. I am fascinated by Oregon...that coastline is the best.
Grow box/training box. I build mine. Here’s a couple photos. These last a long time. Stability whenever moved. And are excellent outdoor all seasons. But you choose what you like. I chose wood mostly because I like the insulation properties for winters and when using guy wires I can just screw an eyelet into the wood frame wherever I want it.
Grow box/training box. I build mine. Here’s a couple photos. These last a long time. Stability whenever moved. And are excellent outdoor all seasons. But you choose what you like. I chose wood mostly because I like the insulation properties for winters and when using guy wires I can just screw an eyelet into the wood frame wherever I want it.
Yes the Oregon coast is beautiful I think, The whole state has so much variety. If you drive two hours in any direction from bend you will get stark differences in scenery and climate. Great I love those boxes, great idea thanks again.
shinmai
Chumono
If you do put either or both in the ground, you can put something solid, like a ceramic tile, underneath. That will cause the roots to grow out radially, rather than down, for a head start on nebari.
My compliments on both wiring jobs. I'm new as well, and it is very challenging to wire correctly. I believe it was Mr. Miyagi who said, "Wiring would be much easier without all these @#$%ing branches in the way."
My compliments on both wiring jobs. I'm new as well, and it is very challenging to wire correctly. I believe it was Mr. Miyagi who said, "Wiring would be much easier without all these @#$%ing branches in the way."
shinmai
Chumono
Hysterical avatar, by the way.
Hey thanks! I have never heard of that trick before makes sense though absolutely nowhere to go but out or up
milehigh_7
Mister 500,000
It's been my experience that pot is pretty much always a good idea.
shinmai
Chumono
Hannah,
Another bit of unsolicited advice....
When you have nursery stock in its original pot and soil, the challenge is balancing the risk of trauma from repotting, versus the risk of root rot or fungus from poor drainage. In my limited experience, I have repotted much more delicate material [rhododendrons and lavender star flowers] at the 'wrong' time of year with no ill effects. The trauma of repotting is from cutting roots, not moving to a new pot. Both of the containers you have seem small relative to the size of the above-ground portion of the trees. If I remember correctly, you are in zone 6, where temperatures can occasionally go below zero. A possible solution might be this: for both plants, get a larger container, at least a three gallon nursery pot or even a five gallon bucket. With the bucket, drill a bunch of hole in the bottom for drainage. Then slip the trees out of their little pots, and gently knock away as much of the nursery soil as you can without injuring the roots. Put the tree in the larger container with a real bonsai aggregate around it. Everyone has their opinion, but personally I use one third akadama, one third Oil Dry [which is bentonite clay], and one third Napa 8822, Dri-Stall [which is diatomaceous earth]. You can then sink those containers into the ground.
This combination will give you good drainage, you'll get the insulating effect of burying them in the ground, and because the roots are not restricted, the trees will be able to grow and thicken when the season of growth is upon them. As a bonus, the bucket handle will make it easier to pull the thing out of the ground when you want to.
This is not based entirely on bonsai experience. I've been raising antique English roses for twenty-two years, and I've used the buried bucket method when I needed to place a rose someplace temporarily, and wanted it to grow out some more.
Another bit of unsolicited advice....
When you have nursery stock in its original pot and soil, the challenge is balancing the risk of trauma from repotting, versus the risk of root rot or fungus from poor drainage. In my limited experience, I have repotted much more delicate material [rhododendrons and lavender star flowers] at the 'wrong' time of year with no ill effects. The trauma of repotting is from cutting roots, not moving to a new pot. Both of the containers you have seem small relative to the size of the above-ground portion of the trees. If I remember correctly, you are in zone 6, where temperatures can occasionally go below zero. A possible solution might be this: for both plants, get a larger container, at least a three gallon nursery pot or even a five gallon bucket. With the bucket, drill a bunch of hole in the bottom for drainage. Then slip the trees out of their little pots, and gently knock away as much of the nursery soil as you can without injuring the roots. Put the tree in the larger container with a real bonsai aggregate around it. Everyone has their opinion, but personally I use one third akadama, one third Oil Dry [which is bentonite clay], and one third Napa 8822, Dri-Stall [which is diatomaceous earth]. You can then sink those containers into the ground.
This combination will give you good drainage, you'll get the insulating effect of burying them in the ground, and because the roots are not restricted, the trees will be able to grow and thicken when the season of growth is upon them. As a bonus, the bucket handle will make it easier to pull the thing out of the ground when you want to.
This is not based entirely on bonsai experience. I've been raising antique English roses for twenty-two years, and I've used the buried bucket method when I needed to place a rose someplace temporarily, and wanted it to grow out some more.
shinmai
Chumono
Now I understand why it's mile high.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
Best Avatar Ever!
And if "husband" indicates the traditional, and you are a women too....
Even more badass!
But heh!....
Them places no one will find people....
Awesome yamadori trees round dem parts too!
Next time you're out burying a body..
Bring a tree home!
Welcome to Crazy!
Sorce
And if "husband" indicates the traditional, and you are a women too....
Even more badass!
But heh!....
Them places no one will find people....
Awesome yamadori trees round dem parts too!
Next time you're out burying a body..
Bring a tree home!
Welcome to Crazy!
Sorce
Tieball
Masterpiece
I’ve done similar ground placement growing before too. It works well. Good advice @shinmai. I’m in an area that gets lots of snow. Lots of freezing....well below that zero point. And a lengthy cold dormancy time. In my area, below the container, the bucket, I make sure there is a adequate layer of draining....and not a solid clay bed. Easy for me actually because I have a very sandy soil below the surface....sand like in beach sand dunes. Drains verrrrrry well. Excellent cold insulator.
Around me the deer like to graze on anything that remains greenish in the winter. I think Junipers are like donuts to the deer. I simple put up an open grid fence to block grazing. I’ve also sprayed Liquid Fence on key trees and bushes to block the munching by the deer and rabbits. Works really well. Smells terrible when applied...rotten eggs. Worst fart ever. Really. The scent goes away in a day, maybe two days. The taste stays on all winter even though I cannot detect it myself. Rain and snow do not wash it off. I’ve sprayed areas and the deer stay away for a couple years sometimes...the buffet is not open. The deer go elsewhere....good training.
milehigh_7
Mister 500,000
LOL It's because I'm from Colorado and USED to be a Bronco fan. but I did buy 4 new pots last week and bid on 8 more...
LanceMac10
Imperial Masterpiece
Well Done!!!
Colorado folk are super nice.....until they see my Patriots gear!!!!
Couple near beatdowns, they're lucky I got a son now!!! Don't need a jail term when I'm on vacation!!
Haha yes @sorce I am a female Whitewater Kayaker, however, bringing home a tree could be very difficult in that my boat is only 5'5" and 49 gallons so not a lot of room to spare unless I park by some valid specimens! And you don't bury people its called a Sieve or a well-placed Strainer As for football, I'm sorry guys I play Rugby....Soooo football is not for me! Thank you all For you excellent recommendations! I truly appreciate it. So @shinmai repotting now instead of waiting would be picking the lesser of two evils?
As for football, I'm sorry guys I play Rugby....Soooo football is not for me! Thank you all For you excellent recommendations! I truly appreciate it. So @shinmai repotting now instead of waiting would be picking the lesser of two evils?
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
This tree, if the same one we have been talking about, looks more like a Spruce than a Juniper?
