To Seal or Not to Seal
- Thread starter milehigh_7
- Start date
Said this about Jason? Jason has more sense in his big toe then some people. Worm food no just start from the bottom and work your way up, club minutes, travel, talk to the trade, talk to horticulturist, talk to people that do this stuff for a living. You will be amazed what practicle knowledge will do for you. Tired old research is thinking in the past. How are you going to get inspired reading what doesn't work and lets put those people out of work that produce this material? You can't! Energy and positive thoughts comes from inspiration...show me what works...show me why this works....show me something beautiful that your skill created...
Ya know KK, life is full of people who can and people who can't. Those who can, well they produce and thier results speak for themselves. Those that can't are bitter, bitter that that the younger generations are coming in and smokin' thier results in 1/3 of the time. Bitter because they don't have an artistic sense or the proper material so they have to make up for it in other ways. That could range from teaching, writing, becoming book smart, all of these to make up for short comings. You will find these people live with blinders on too, they will only see what they want to get across, and when a direct question comes back to them they ignore it and repeat the same thing over and over. But that is fine.....because in life it takes all kinds to make the world go around. Without these people there would be no passangers on those little yellow busses...the short bus!
A good example would be a guy who wanted to be a race care driver but didn't have the skills so he became a mechanic or track worker, a guy who loved golf but couldn't golf at that level so he became a caddy or greensman. Bonsai is no different, guys that can't sucessfully work on trees will do something else in bonsai, become a supplier of tools and wire, write articles, or just become a bitter old person. But they jump at every chance to try and prove themselves but fall short and really prove that they have no skill.
How does that apply to me?
Anonymous User
Banned
Five years in bonsai and doing alright, thank you.
http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1615
http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1615
Ok, I read something tonight that kinda kicked me in the butt alittle bit and made me take a step back. This topic, the foliar feeding one, and the superthrive topics got really stupid on most everyones part. Who cares what one person thinks? If it works for you then excellent, if you want to believe what you read on a college website and promote that then that is excellent too. But in the end no one wins and we all look like dumb asssses.
Wise words from our wise friend Mr. Walston.
http://bonsainurseryman.typepad.com/bonsainurseryman/2009/02/bonsai-forums-self-destruct.html
Jason
Wise words from our wise friend Mr. Walston.
http://bonsainurseryman.typepad.com/bonsainurseryman/2009/02/bonsai-forums-self-destruct.html
Jason
milehigh_7
Mister 500,000
Yup His words always are-- it's good to have Brent around, he is like the wise uncle of bonsai.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Ya know KK, life is full of people who can and people who can't. Those who can, well they produce and thier results speak for themselves. Those that can't are bitter, bitter that that the younger generations are coming in and smokin' thier results in 1/3 of the time. Bitter because they don't have an artistic sense or the proper material so they have to make up for it in other ways. That could range from teaching, writing, becoming book smart, all of these to make up for short comings. You will find these people live with blinders on too, they will only see what they want to get across, and when a direct question comes back to them they ignore it and repeat the same thing over and over. But that is fine.....because in life it takes all kinds to make the world go around. Without these people there would be no passangers on those little yellow busses...the short bus!
A good example would be a guy who wanted to be a race care driver but didn't have the skills so he became a mechanic or track worker, a guy who loved golf but couldn't golf at that level so he became a caddy or greensman. Bonsai is no different, guys that can't sucessfully work on trees will do something else in bonsai, become a supplier of tools and wire, write articles, or just become a bitter old person. But they jump at every chance to try and prove themselves but fall short and really prove that they have no skill.
How does that apply to me?
It wasn't pointed at you Jason it was in reference to KK's assertion that some one with little time in bonsai could not have an impact on bonsai.
Quote: February 11th, 2009 06:51 AM
Until he gets more experience with botany and plant care, there is no way he should be on a staff of a journal having anything to do with this subject matter at this time.
Wise words from our wise friend Mr. Walston.
http://bonsainurseryman.typepad.com/bonsainurseryman/2009/02/bonsai-forums-self-destruct.html
So Brent, I am open ears. You imply "the nuts are running the show". No, I do not believe everything I read but when something written is swayed to the point it is rediculous and untrue, do we not need to express the other side of the story? Do we just shake or heads and say to ourselves "I can't believe I just read that" and walk away hoping nobody takes it for real. To me that's leaving the scene of an accident. If you think the complete story should be offered to the public then I am going to give it my best to show the complete story. We critique bonsai often, why can't we critique written material?
http://bonsainurseryman.typepad.com/bonsainurseryman/2009/02/bonsai-forums-self-destruct.html
So Brent, I am open ears. You imply "the nuts are running the show". No, I do not believe everything I read but when something written is swayed to the point it is rediculous and untrue, do we not need to express the other side of the story? Do we just shake or heads and say to ourselves "I can't believe I just read that" and walk away hoping nobody takes it for real. To me that's leaving the scene of an accident. If you think the complete story should be offered to the public then I am going to give it my best to show the complete story. We critique bonsai often, why can't we critique written material?
Brent
Mame
No one has an obligation to state their case. I sometimes do, and did so in this thread on the title subject. In the other myth threads, I have stated my case in previous threads and am unpersuaded by what I have read since then. In a polite, intelligent, and respectful discussion, I might had added further comments. But when the house is burning down, I don't try to tell the fireman how to improve his 401K holdings. This is expounded upon fully in the link above. When the message is about the topic, intelligent arguments can be made and conclusions drawn by all. That's not what's going on here (although it started out that way). No, what's going on here is ego, character assassination, and the desire to always have the last word without regard to intelligence or truth.
I don't have a problem with that; I like a good car wreck or house fire as much as anyone else, I just don't expect much rational discussion to come from it, and most attempts to have a rational discussion at such a scene are fruitless.
When the real subject is ego, character assassination, and the unfettered desire to have the last word, then yes, the best thing to do is leave the scene of the accident and let the authorities clean it up. In this forum, the authorities are weak to non existent. I don't have a problem with that, it's good entertainment at most times, and on rare occasions an intelligent discussion takes place as occurred early in this thread, although that is pretty much lost now.
I don't mean this to be rude or disrespectful, but the manner in which you present your arguments is damaging to your credibility. I think you need to take a long hard look at exactly what you are doing here and who you think you are winning over by acting is such a fashion. By the way, this applies to several others here, so please don't think I am singling you out.
We critique written material all the time. I have probably written more than five thousand comprehensive posts since 1996 when I started posting to forums. In that entire time, I have never deliberately belittled, ridiculed, or condemned anyone responding to my posts. On the very rare occasion where it has happened by accident or by a poor choice of words, I have apologized as I did to you earlier in this thread.
I have probably done more critique of bonsai horticultural practices than any other person alive, and I have managed to do it without exhibiting any of the shameful behavior that is taken for granted here.
Brent
EvergreenGardenworks.com
see my blog at http://BonsaiNurseryman.typepad.com
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Every good battle needs a referee Brent. Now for the hard part. Do you think this statement is accurate...yes or no please. "Foliar Feeding, bark sealants and superthrive without a doubt, have absolutely no good effect at all when used on plants"
Thanks for your response.
Thanks for your response.
Brent
Mame
KK
With all due respect, I am not obligated to answer yes or no. This is not a courtroom. To answer yes or no would be terribly misleading. I have stated my conclusions on all of these issues in previous posts. My view on sealants can be found in this thread. My views on auxin can be found in the archives on this forum in a massive thread about two years ago. My views on auxin can be extended to Superthrive since that is the only listed ingredient in question. The evidence is clear on B1, even here. I have stated my views on foliar feeding several times in the past on several forums as well as my website.
Now, if you really want to make a rational decision on these issues, I suggest that you look these up as well as other sources and consider them. Feel free to attack, criticize, or whatever. I am not averse to an intelligent rational debate or to clarifying my point of view, but I refuse to be drawn into simplistic black and white dialectics.
I have told this story before, so I apologize to those who have already heard it. The wisest instructor in my college career once said to us " When you first hear a point of view that is completely alien to what you believe and know to be true, don't immediately pass judgment on it. First, let it settle to the pit of your stomach and roll it around down there, looking at and evaluating the argument from the other's point of view, carefully weighing the evidence and the argument no matter how distasteful. Most likely, you will emerge with your view intact, but now you will believe it with even stronger conviction, but if not, then it may be the thing that leads you to the truth. He was fired shortly after I graduated, for espousing radical points of view.
Brent
Brent, I spend upwards to 5 grand a year on foliar spray, fungicides, insecticides and nutrients. I am way past reading about them part. I am a farmer Brent, I feed people, all we talk about around my area is how to grow plants. I can guarantee you one thing, if I or any of the farmers around me thought this stuff (foliar fertilizer) didn't work, do you think we would be spending money on it? Not a chance. I told the IFAS extension supervisor that I was trying to convince some people that foliar fertilizers work. She laughed and said "do they know the wheel has been invented?" She was in shock to think that people that make bold horticulture staements like its the word don't understand foliar nutrition. It is very frustrating trying to inform people. Maybe your right Brent, it's nuts to try.
tombeur
Yamadori
So are you saying that believing it makes it true? If I believe that I am a great bonsai artist will that make it true? I wish.
Cheers,
Steve
milehigh_7
Mister 500,000
Honestly I started this topic to learn about sealing. Much good information was given and I have learned about sealing. This thread has long since run its course and no good is coming of it at this point.
One exception might be that we are hopefully learning how to avoid such mass stupidity and rudeness. I believe I am slowly learning this. It is difficult for me I will admit, by my nature I am rather combative and I even enjoy heated debates. I for one am hoping to become more wise as I travel through life. Pride, arrogance, the need to be right and have the last word seldom facilitate this goal.
I am going to ask that this thread be locked. Was I an admin I would lock it and edit out all posts that did not pertain to the subject. It was a good topic once.
Thanks to the people who positively contributed, even those whose contributions were sometimes positive. Maybe we can all learn to communicate more effectively and live in peace with our fellow Bonsai Nuts.
One exception might be that we are hopefully learning how to avoid such mass stupidity and rudeness. I believe I am slowly learning this. It is difficult for me I will admit, by my nature I am rather combative and I even enjoy heated debates. I for one am hoping to become more wise as I travel through life. Pride, arrogance, the need to be right and have the last word seldom facilitate this goal.
I am going to ask that this thread be locked. Was I an admin I would lock it and edit out all posts that did not pertain to the subject. It was a good topic once.
Thanks to the people who positively contributed, even those whose contributions were sometimes positive. Maybe we can all learn to communicate more effectively and live in peace with our fellow Bonsai Nuts.
This mass stupidity thing. Is this like mass hysteria? What are the early warning signs? Let me understand, you are combative by nature but you want us to be peaceful? I like Brent's idea the best. The bonsainut where the nuts are running the show. It has a nice ring to it.
emorrin
Sapling
Well said. I guess I tend to follow this philosophy without even knowing it. I believe it is good to think outside of the box from time to time.
milehigh_7
Mister 500,000
Yes Kong I do believe that we, with training, discipline and the occasional intervention of the wise and cool headed, can overcome our nature.
Don't we do this all the time in bonsai? We can take the mighty Sequoia and Oak and stuff them into tiny pots and make them behave. Why ask things of our trees that we are unwilling to submit to ourselves.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Good point!
Overcome our nature? Dude, this what we are, what we believe in so I say stand up and express yourself. You got people here unloading years of information at a drop of a hat. Yes it is nice to have the cool and wise in the frey but there is a reason they are preceived as cool and wise. They usually don't make a hard line decisions, there is no line drawn in the sand, their responses are clever with wiggle room so nobodies nose gets out of joint. I enjoy a factual argument with logical consistency, factual accuracy with a little emotional appeal on the side. If you really believe in something and your experience tells you to go with your gut feeling, let it rip and participate. Pick a side and go for it.
Mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be like WH......
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