To Seal or Not to Seal

king kong

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Maybe I did not make this clear. The picture shows two wounds. One not treated and one treated. The cavity is an old cut followed Dr. Shigo's premise that all wounds will be infected and it was. Fungus, decay and borers to name a few. But that's ok according to Dr. Shigo because the new parts exceed the wood being invaded so the tree will live.
The second wound was sealed so repair began within 24 hours with no pathogens infecting wound. Which way makes sense to you?
 

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Walter Pall

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KK,

please stop making a complete fool of yourself. Do you want an image as ignorant who ignores the big horticultural capacities? Just trust the Will has got it RIGHT!
 
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king kong

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KK,

please stop making a complete fool of yourself. Do you want an image as ignorant who ignores the big horticultural capacities? Just trust the Will has got it RIGHT!

That was big of you Walter. Do you have something to add with any substance? I suppose you believe foliar fertilizer is a myth too?
 

king kong

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Don't hide your intelligence Walter. I expressed my views. What do you know about wound sealants and or foliar fertilizers?
 

Walter Pall

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Sorry KK,

discussing this subject with someone who does not know who Dr. Shigo was and what compartmentalization means is like disussing serious bonsai design with someone who has never heard of John Naka and has no clue what is meant by 'taper'.
Read what Will and Marc wrote and go to the links. There is state of the art know how. I have nothing to add to this.
It is OK to be an igonrant but want to learn. It is not OK to stubbornly insist on ignorance. Makes me quite angry.
 
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1. "All trees will be infected after wounding"

2. "While pathogens are invading the tree, the tree is growing new parts"

3."So long as new parts are formed exceed the amount of wood being invaded, the tree will live"

I don't know weather to laugh or cry. How is this self serving to his mission? It would be like saying The theory of relativity is self serving to Einsteins mission.

There is Fungusamugus you know;)

KK, you need to embrace the Fungus and not fight it, no matter how hard. Trying to fight fungus to eradication is frivolity at best. There are many good fungi above and below the tree as well. Good Horticultural practices will always prevail in keeping any tree fully ready to fight of the bad guys on its own. And if not than it is usually the wrong tree for that particular geographic area.
 
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king kong

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Sorry KK,

discussing this subject with someone who does not know who Dr. Shigo was and what compartmentalization means is like disussing serious bonsai design with someone who has never heard of John Naka and has no clue what is meant by 'taper'.
Read what Will and Marc wrote and go to the links. There is state of the art know how. I have nothing to add to this.
It is OK to be an igonrant but want to learn. It is not OK to stubbornly insist on ignorance. Makes me quite angry.

Makes me quite angry. You poor thing. Just what I thought, you dodged the questions with your rather typical arrogant manner. Leave us with a thought Mr. Pall...earn your keep. Again the subject is wound sealants and or foliar fertilizer. You can do it.
 

king kong

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I don't know weather to laugh or cry. How is this self serving to his mission? It would be like saying The theory of relativity is self serving to Einsteins mission.

There is Fungusamugus you know;)

KK, you need to embrace the Fungus and not fight it, no matter how hard. Trying to fight fungus to eradication is frivolity at best. There are many good fungi above and below the tree as well. Good Horticultural practices will always prevail in keeping any tree fully ready to fight of the bad guys on its own. And if not than it is usually the wrong tree for that particular geographic area.

OK Marc, the good Dr. is going under the asumption that all tree wounds become compromised by pathogens and invading infections. I say this makes no sense to me and I do not allow this condition to occur to my plants.
Embrace the fungus....what in heaven's name are you smoking?
 

king kong

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Quod erat demostrandum. google it.

Let us talk science Mr. Pall, not Latin idioms. Again,the subject tree wounds and or foliar fertilizer. Do you agree with this premise of Dr. Shigo's, yes or no? " So long as new parts are formed exceed the amount of wood being invaded, the tree will live." Looking forward to your response.
 

milehigh_7

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LOL! Well suffice it to say there is a difference of opinion on this subject. I do appreciate the excellent and spirited participation.

I have some research that I can study and I got some great answers, some based on personal experience all can be learned from. Thanks to everyone.

Having done a fair amount of research in my time I understand that no study is foolproof and there are certainly variables that change the observed results. That said, one must certainly at least consider results that are:

1) observable
2) repeatable
3) measurable

Again thanks to all and I believe we have established where each side is coming from on the subject.

Peace everyone!
 

king kong

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OK, we let that pot simmer until he decides to be responsive. For those who are still on the fence and wondering why keep this mess up. Well it works and maybe one person will get better results in the future and that will make it worth my time. So, in conclusion I have a photo showing a drastic trunk chop that is:

Showing good cambium, and callus generation
No insect attacks such as the borer due to no smell volatiles being emitted
No checking or cracking of heart or sap wood
No fungi or pathogens
After cut was made a seal was applied for complete prophylactic barrier

I have been growing this nerifolia for 20 years and decided to chop it. I did not want to take any chances nor could I afford to have any set back or die back due to outside circumstances. It has responded very well and look forward to growing new branches.
 

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JasonG

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Good conversation..... MileHigh, and 4mileMark, good valuable input to go along with what Will has privided....Kong, Walter made it very obvious as to where he stands as did yourself, so I am not sure why you keep asking for his response....
It appears that it is all a matter or prefrence here. Many universities have provided documented evidence that it provides nothing positive for the tree.

In a moist and warm climate with tropicals it could help..... but outside of tropicals the little bit of deadwood left is actually a nice feature in bonsai.

I say, if you swear by cut paste then carry on with it. If you believe the facts and knows what works best for you in your climate then carry on.

Jason
 

king kong

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Good conversation..... MileHigh, and 4mileMark, good valuable input to go along with what Will has privided....Kong, Walter made it very obvious as to where he stands as did yourself, so I am not sure why you keep asking for his response....


Jason

Because anybody can sit on the side and throw rocks Jason. But when it comes to dicussing the details of the subject, that is how to arrive at a goal and learn along the way.
 

Rusty Harris

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Not on topic, just adding perspective

In the 18th Century, a British Physician named Edward Jenner noticed how the local milk maids never seemed to catch small pox; a wide spread disease of the time. He first observed how milk maids never exhibited any scars of previously having had small pox, which left people horribly scarred if they managed to live through it. He then observed milk maids simply never got small pox, but often had smaller, less severe "cow pox" blisters and sores on their hands from milking, which always cleared up and left no scars. He then purposely infected an orphan boy with cow pox by scratching the boy's skin with a needle that had been inserted directly into a cow pox blister from a milk maid. The boy caught cow pox, and quickly recovered as the milk maids did. About a month later, Dr. Jenner infected the young orphan boy with small pox, by scratching the boy's skin with a needle that had been directly inserted into a blister on a person with small pox. The orphan boy never caught small pox!. The very first vaccine ever was discovered! Jenner then vaccinated himself, and his family too, against small pox. He then went through the country side, vaccinated anyone who wanted it, and spared many from dying horrible deaths, or being horribly scarred for life from small pox. Do you want to know what his reward was for inventing a vaccine(the first vaccine ever) against small pox?????


He was stoned to death by the community for practising witchcraft !!!
 
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Quod erat demostrandum. google it.

With respect mr. Pall it is: Quod erat demonstrandum. Like bonsai the language is old enough to quote it right. And yes reading things like this is better than watching television.

If you are starting a discussion like this you must sure you compare appels with appels. Not a field grown tree with bonsai. There is a difference you know.
Second you cannot compare a good seal product with Hokki Wokki stuf.
Third there is a difference how people work with the seal product. Person A is less precies than person B. Use the stuf the way it has to be used.

Who are we to doubt about the use of cut paste if most Japanese growers are using it on there most precious trees? They do this for decades and it works for them.
Unlike scientific people they live from selling trees instead of writing about trees.
Scientists write for the money, and if you take a close look at theire study's it often shows that this study mostly effect one or two species. Not enough for me.:confused:
 
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