Too big for me

bonsai barry

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No, this pine isn't as big as the one Brian pulled out of the ground, but I think its too big for me to keep. However, before offering it for trade to someone in the local bonsai club, I thought I'd post a few pics and let you convince me to hold onto it. I'm not sure what kind of two-needle pine it it, but I pulled it out of the ground last Feb.
 

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Brent

Mame
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Barry

Get rid of it. That juvenile foliage makes me think it's an Allepo pine or one of those other Middle Eastern pines. Pines take so long to develop, it's not worth investing in anything but the best stock you can afford and the best species. Been there, done that.

Brent
EvergreenGardenworks.com
see our blog at http://BonsaiNurseryman.typepad.com
 

Bonsai Nut

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I would keep it and play with it - though it might end up in the garbage in a year or two depending on how it responded. I agree with Brent however - if you are short of space I would not replace a juvenile JBP for this. Personally, I would chop the heck out of it and reduce the first branch and see what happened in the Spring.
 

Smoke

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Looks like an Italian stone pine to me. They sometimes use these in the live Christmas tree trade. Ernie Kuo did a pretty good write up in Bonsai Today some years back on this type of pine. His tree looked OK but he said it took alot of work to keep it that way. Those needles look pretty dangerous to me...

Smoke
 

Brent

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The problem with junk is that you get attached to it. For some people this isn't a problem but for others it reaches the level of addiction. I have seen talented people completely short circuit their potential bonsai career by adopting every ophran and waif to come down the pike. You won't learn anything from this pine, and if you did it would just increase your chances of getting stuck. Good bonsai beginning material is CHEAP! Start by limiting your searches to traditional species with at least some potential. Bonsai is hard enough to learn with good material, starting out by doing heroic rescue work on dubious material only increases the chance you will never get there.

Sorry, if this sounds mean, but 90% of the material posted on websites like this belongs in the garbage can on in the landscape. This wonderful resource is simply inundated by junk collectors. I have seen professional after professional abandon the web because of this. One of the things that drew me to this website is that there was a lot of high quality material with a decent level of discussion. But slowly we are reverting to the level of all the other forums. It's our choice, but I would hate to see it happen. It must be possible to have a substantial forum without the dreariness of AOB or KOB. or the clunkiness of IBC. And don't get me started on birthdays!....

To paraphrase Walter Pall, let's not be afraid to call a spade a spade.

Brent
Getting crankier by the minute
 

Bonsai Nut

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let's not be afraid to call a spade a spade.
A very fair comment. Just last year I finally tossed a BIG hinoki cypress that had been oppressing me for 6 years or so. It was never going to be a good tree without 20 years more work (or more). I finally pitched it - freed up a huge amount of space - and felt better instantly. Now I only keep poor trees if I have a current plan for their use - say for airlayers or for grafting scions.
 

bonsai barry

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The problem with junk is that you get attached to it. For some people this isn't a problem but for others it reaches the level of addiction. I have seen talented people completely short circuit their potential bonsai career by adopting every ophran and waif to come down the pike. You won't learn anything from this pine, and if you did it would just increase your chances of getting stuck. Good bonsai beginning material is CHEAP! Start by limiting your searches to traditional species with at least some potential. Bonsai is hard enough to learn with good material, starting out by doing heroic rescue work on dubious material only increases the chance you will never get there.

Sorry, if this sounds mean, but 90% of the material posted on websites like this belongs in the garbage can on in the landscape. This wonderful resource is simply inundated by junk collectors. I have seen professional after professional abandon the web because of this. One of the things that drew me to this website is that there was a lot of high quality material with a decent level of discussion. But slowly we are reverting to the level of all the other forums. It's our choice, but I would hate to see it happen. It must be possible to have a substantial forum without the dreariness of AOB or KOB. or the clunkiness of IBC. And don't get me started on birthdays!....

To paraphrase Walter Pall, let's not be afraid to call a spade a spade.

Brent
Getting crankier by the minute
Well, Brent, to quote Walter, you're calling a spade a spade. I almost feel guilty that I posted that tree at all. But I'm glad I did because you convinced me to dump the tree. Isn't odd how we get attached to trees we know won't amount to much? It lack of space as much as finances that made me decide to jetison this tree in the first place. I've gotten over the urge to buy every juniper at the garden centers, now I just need to get rid of the junk I've already accumulated.

Thanks for the whack on the head.
 

Vance Wood

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Sorry I got to the dance too late, I would have recommended that you keep the tree. From the picture I can see a couple of good possibilities, not the least of which would have been to chop it back to the first branch. Having done that wire down the the second branch with numerous curves to shorten it and use the small side branches as the new branches. I think this could have been made into a decent bonsai with as little as five years work.
 

zen

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Oh no do not get rid of it (unless of course you wanna send it down to GA.) just jin everything above the first branch ( in the next to last pic) after cutting it down some, but being sure to leave some of the main and secondary branches to really give a sense of age.
I wish I had more time right now, I'd work up a virt for you, c'mon somebody w/ time do it.
Well maybe later.
 

Tachigi

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Barry, I would of kept it and thread graft the top of the bottom right branch back to itself further down closer to the trunk and started again. You would of ended up with some advance taper and would have had the leader of the main trunk to assist you in further development of the trunk through normal techniques of trunk development. The virt doesn't show the main leader but you should get the idea.
 

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bonsai barry

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Barry, I would of kept it and thread graft the top of the bottom right branch back to itself further down closer to the trunk and started again. You would of ended up with some advance taper and would have had the leader of the main trunk to assist you in further development of the trunk through normal techniques of trunk development. The virt doesn't show the main leader but you should get the idea.
Thanks for the suggestion it would be great practice for thread grafting.
 

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