Too early for Mugo?

[CoreSeverin]

After reading through Vance Woods Mugo pine tutorial a few times I think it's really too early to do anything with a nursery bought Mugo. Is it at all possible to do work (repotting or pruning) on Mugo pines this early in the year?

 

[Japonicus]

@CoreSeverin you should post pictures of the potential subject, but most likely if you're asking, then yes, it's too early.
You can remove some of the duff about the soil surface, you can remove totally brown dead needles
that come free with gentle pulling motion. You can remove any moss growing on or near the trunk
and if you're proactive, then it may be a good time to use a preventative approach to disease such as needle cast
with a systemic fungicide. Mugo are susceptible...
EDIT: It would be fine to use shears and severe needles on the underside of branches at mid sheath, say 1/16" long
using sterilized shears. However I would be more apt to treat with a fungicide if I were doing any such work pulling or cutting either way.
I have to treat for it and do not have a choice whether I worked on it now or not, but I'm coasting on last years work now building strength.
I do remove multiple terminal buds down to 2 lateral ones if need be though...

 

[sorce]

You can remove a bit now and still repot after the Solstice.

Less than 30% is usually ok.

Repotting the first year is preferable, since the roots ain't getting no better in nursery pots.

Sorce

 

[CoreSeverin]

Thanks for the replies, I appreciate it. Here is a picture of the Mugo. You can see it's raw nursery material not really very exciting. I have not done anything to it at all.

 

[Japonicus]

Thanks for the replies, I appreciate it. Here is a picture of the Mugo. You can see it's raw nursery material not really very exciting. I have not done anything to it at all.

Got any cut paste?

 

[Japonicus]

You can remove a bit now and still repot after the Solstice.

Less than 30% is usually ok.

So yeh, you're going to need some interior light and breath.
Just be careful to not fully eliminate branches at 1st. Keep some side branching on a suspected branch for removal.
As you remove a couple more you might wish you had not removed one you did. You want to open it up SOME so you
can see potential style. Start by combing through with your fingers and eyes pulling dead needles out.
Look at whorls, and imagine which direction may become the front, and which side the 1st branch will start on.
Then, then you can get an idea of which branches in whorl land, to remove.

All removal should leave some sort of a stub to heal over, and seal it immediately.

 

[CoreSeverin]

I do not have any cut paste, it's on my list of supplies to buy though. So if o u understand you correctly, it sounds like I should be able to open it up a little bit without disturbing it so much that it dies. I know this stuff is pretty basic, but I've started to build a small collection of dead trees.

 

[sorce]

I do not have any cut paste, it's on my list of supplies to buy though. So if o u understand you correctly, it sounds like I should be able to open it up a little bit without disturbing it so much that it dies. I know this stuff is pretty basic, but I've started to build a small collection of dead trees.

They're arguing about cut paste on that other thread but not having it shouldn't stop you from Working. That electricians duct seal from homey Depot works best for the money they say. I use a roll of gray HVAC duct seal. Loctite glue works good too.

What have you learned from The dead trees?

Sorce

 

[CoreSeverin]

Nice I'll look onto that, at home depot. Or maybe they have something similar at Ace. What have I learned. Sometimes it's hard to say. I had a spruce that I trimmed up and slip potted, it died, and I'm really not sure why. The last Mugo I had died after I repotted and i probably pruned it too much. One thing I know for sure it that the most success I've had has been with digging up small cedars and working with those, small maples too. But they are too young to do much with.

 

[RKatzin]

I will say this, these landscape trees are some of the worst specimens of mugo pine you could possibly endeavor to convert to bonsai. Whew!
Most likely what you'll find when you dig inside is an octopus shaped branching with no definable trunkline. It's an exercise in futility and the learning experience invaluable, but not one I'd care to repeat. But do it, by all means, and while you're at it find a nice mugo that's been grown and trained from the git go to be a bonsai and I think you'll see what I'm jabbering on about.

 

[CoreSeverin]

Thanks RKatzin, I will keep that in mind next time I am looking around for nursery stock. I was actually pretty disappointed with the shop I bought this tree at, they had a few things that I would have loved to work with, but overall it was not the best. They actually had some pots that I was excited about, that did not last long because when I picked them up I found that the Humidity trays were GLUED to the pot. so yeah, it was not the greatest.

 

[RKatzin]

You can find good workable trees at some landscape yard and garden nurseries, but most require major transitional work to attain mediocre bonsai. Many faults that can't be undone. For instance, the habit of nurseries to top off the pot and burying another 2" of trunk causes roots to come up into the fresh soil and end up wrapped around the base of the trunk. When you dig into the soil to get to the nebari you find deep grooves in the base of the trunk from these wrap around roots. These will persist for the life of the tree, at best reducing to striation lines cutting the wrong way across the bark, almost the same as a grafting line. A good bonsai nursery will offer trees that will start you out many years ahead.

 

[Japonicus]

It's an exercise in futility and the learning experience invaluable

Fresh out of Winter dormancy under my Sunroom and neglected last year. The exercise being futile and invaluable
I should have left it in the 1g nursery can at Lowes?
It's worth the exercise to look through each and every mugo in a nursery and every once in a while, maybe years apart
one shows up that if left to be sold to the typical do it yourself landscaper, it will be lost material forever.
@Vance Wood has tons of experience with selecting nursery stock Mugo Pine for bonsai.
You cannot, just glance at the canopy, and say it is an invaluable exercise.

 

[CoreSeverin]

If I could somehow get my mugo to look like that, I would be pretty happy with the effort it takes.

 

[Japonicus]

If I could somehow get my mugo to look like that, I would be pretty happy with the effort it takes.

It's in bad need of cleaning up and thinning out again.
EDIT: site/server stopped responding...
...I just sprayed all my pines with Phyton27 as the candles are extending.
I don't want to make any more "wounds" cutting needles, reducing buds and so forth
till the systemic digs in and starts working.

As you can see in this video, it does shape up pretty good with a bit of care,
but also, not knowing what you've got under the hood so to speak with yours
this video may illustrate a possible direction if it's a clump. We've no idea how much
insight was given in your selection of this one, so no way to know why you chose the one you did.
As @RKatzin basically said, they're not a pick one and go with it, but none of any species are really.
You've read Lazylightningny

 

[Japonicus]

my apologies the server stopped responding and a bit of that last post was lost
while I was out spraying my few pines I have and eating dinner LOL!


You've read Lazylightningny's tutorial from Vances mugo insights several times, so I'm sure you know
how to choose one, and at this stage, it is more malleable than one that is older.
I agree it is hard to find one in my area of the country worth the trouble, but @sorce has done pretty good
finding nursery mugo worth the effort. I mean if you're gonna pick one up on a motorcycle and take it home...

Pot it up 1st of July, spreading out the roots, next time you pot it up remove more nursery soil.
What bonsai soil will you be using?

Take care as while at this time you inquire about being too early
the buds/candles are particularly tender and very easy to break off while sifting through it.

 

[CoreSeverin]

Yeah I'm going to hold off on it until july, I have a couple other trees to fart around with until then, so I should be distracted enough to not get an itch to start messing around with it haha. Anyway, the soil I'm using is basically the Napa 8822 DE, and I've got a bit of potting soil with fairly course bark I've been mixing that up in different ratios. I've also tried adding bentonite, not sure if it makes much difference. There is a garden center nearby that has cactus mix that has small lava bits, I'm thinking of getting that and trying it as well. What is the python27 supposed to do for you?

 

[Japonicus]

What is the python27 supposed to do for you?

However I would be more apt to treat with a fungicide if I were doing any such work pulling or cutting either way.
I have to treat for it and do not have a choice whether I worked on it now or not, but I'm coasting on last years work now building strength.

I lost my 1st JBP to needle cast and pretty sure all my pines have it now.

I wouldn’t mess with adding more potting soil.
That’s what you’re trying to get rid of in the beginning when using nursery stock.

Repotting the first year is preferable, since the roots ain't getting no better in nursery pots.

 

[sorce]

Yeah I'm going to hold off on it until july, I have a couple other trees to fart around with until then, so I should be distracted enough to not get an itch to start messing around with it haha. Anyway, the soil I'm using is basically the Napa 8822 DE, and I've got a bit of potting soil with fairly course bark I've been mixing that up in different ratios. I've also tried adding bentonite, not sure if it makes much difference. There is a garden center nearby that has cactus mix that has small lava bits, I'm thinking of getting that and trying it as well. What is the python27 supposed to do for you?

I don't know what bentonite particle size you found....but I know of it in mesh sizes....microns....

These microns are known to make clay more slippery, it is like THE product to make things mush.

Give it to the wifey for a face mask!

Sorce

 

[Japonicus]

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