Too late to chop?

[BonjourBonsai]

I picked this JM up last fall. It was very inexpensive. I've been studying it through the spring. I'm willing to sacrifice the top and not sure layer it. I've got a few other air layer going. I really like the trunk and basal flair of the roots. Question, is it too late to chop the trunk?

 

[leatherback]

I would not hesitate to chop, assuming you do not want to layer.

 

[BonjourBonsai]

I would not hesitate to chop, assuming you do not want to layer.

I'm ok with sacrificing the upper part and not layering it. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Lorax7]

I have done a trunk chop on a Japanese maple this late in the growing season without encountering problems.

 

[sorce]

Where you fittin to chop it?

I like the continuous flow of the high piece but it's too high.

Are there any buds pointing in a better direction than that low branch?

Sorce

 

[BonjourBonsai]

@sorce that's the next question! Here are some better photos. I agree with your assessment. I'm torn because I really like the taper to going into the top branch. It would make a much taller tree though.

 

[sorce]

You might have to do it in 2 steps.

I would do a smokelike "safety cut" at the red, but just cut the middle leg out. Then look for buds that point up better, let em grow into a branch, then make a good chop later.

Hopefully opposite that lowest branch. Within a couple inches from there up or down would be most useful IMO.

I don't trust new buds for new leaders, gotta have the branch. This seems healthy enough to pop plenty for you.

So, in the beginning I was thinking if your first idea was better than the one you had now...it's too late!

I think answering your own question with an intermediate cut is prime.

Sorce

 

[BonjourBonsai]

What about something like this?

I have done a trunk chop on a Japanese maple this late in the growing season without encountering problems.

Thanks for letting me know. I was afraid that I missed the window of opportunity.

 

[penumbra]

For most trees in zone 6 I have generally used the 4th of July as a cut off date. I think you will be just fine. Just consider that regardless of where you cut, you may have some die back.

 

[BonjourBonsai]

For most trees in zone 6 I have generally used the 4th of July as a cut off date. I think you will be just fine. Just consider that regardless of where you cut, you may have some die back.

Thank you for bringing that up. I know JMs die back, like a lot of other deciduous trees. Maybe I'm being a little aggressive in thinking about the V cut. Would it be a stretch to think that it could heal over and both branches would survive? Second order question, if it did heal would it be too ugly? I know that this tree is grafted and it will never be a stunner but it's a pretty good graft so I'd like to do my best.

 

[penumbra]

Maybe I'm being a little aggressive in thinking about the V cut.

I think that "V" cut is pretty advanced work. If I was to attempt it on a JM, I would do it late winter / early spring when buds are beginning to swell. Some other trees, such as an elm, I would be less reluctant to engage.

 

[leatherback]

I would just take a pair of loppers and lop the central off. Unless that is where you see the tree be in the long run, I see no real value in making it pretty.

If you do do a V-cut, beware that any twisting you do with a blad may cause the whole branch to snap off. If cut with a shap saw and treated with cut-paste (Which help reduce the risk of die-back) it will callus all along the cut and over the next 1-3 years heal over.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Is bigger trunk desired? If so would not remove majority or tree making it bigger. If keeping upper tree trim branches shading lower ones so can begin developing.

 

[BobbyLane]

i thought it was a bit late when i did a V cut on this one in mid aug last year. but the tree didnt skip a beat, progression is here

Acer Katsura project#1

From a nursery tree. again this one picked out for its exceptionally good roots that will only improve. tree has a good, solid trunk. i like the branch structure on this one, still very raw, but i see a very natural image down the line 20190320_204135 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr 20190320_160818 by...

www.bonsainut.com

last pic was the tree yest

 

[ConorDash]

What about satisfying everyone's advice.. (although bear in mind people are in different climates to you).

You can make your first chop soon, whereby having done something and the tree will start progressing, chopping to the first red line, leaving that blue shoot in tact. Worst case, tree dies back to that branch, its your safety branch.
By doing this, I imagine the tree will respond very strongly and the areas circled in purple, should bud and grow really strong for next few months.
Then, satisfying other's advice, later in the season you could do the V cut, leaving both the larger and smaller branches in tact for future leaders (if you want it splitting in to 2 trunks). They will have both got some nice grow growth, and as its the second chop, its less of a big shock, so one would think the dieback risk would be a lot lower.



Thats my methodical plan. Personally, I am aware that large work should be done in the middle of growing season when JMs are at full strength. I'm not sure when that is for your zone. Depending on how you feel about that, you may want to wait for the second chop till Spring next year.
If in a rush, do it, DO IT NOW (as Arny would say), if you'd like to spend a bit more time and gain more experience and learn more, see how it responds, etc, then the slower idea..
Either way you'll learn something

 

[Lorax7]

What about something like this?View attachment 310834

Thanks for letting me know. I was afraid that I missed the window of opportunity.

I would cut it higher up than that to leave room for it to die-back. You can trim it down later after the die-back has occurred since you’d be trimming dead wood at that point.

 

[leatherback]

I would cut it higher up than that to leave room for it to die-back.

I hear this risk of die-back all the time. I do not think I have had japanese maple die back on me when cut in the spring to early summer high-juice state.

I got the same input when I did this: https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/summer-pruning-and-die-back.43780
That wound is callusing all around the chop now.

 

[BobbyLane]

yeh the maple die back thing gets overdone. the whole point of chopping maples during active growth is that this is minimalised, i usually chop quite close in active growth, but over winter is when i leave more of a stub.
some people wont chop maples at all during winter and even when the tree is growing some are still scared to chop

 

[BonjourBonsai]

i thought it was a bit late when i did a V cut on this one in mid aug last year. but the tree didnt skip a beat, progression is here

Acer Katsura project#1

From a nursery tree. again this one picked out for its exceptionally good roots that will only improve. tree has a good, solid trunk. i like the branch structure on this one, still very raw, but i see a very natural image down the line 20190320_204135 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr 20190320_160818 by...

www.bonsainut.com

last pic was the tree yest

Thanks for pointing out your thread. It is really well documented and gives me some encouragement.

 

[BonjourBonsai]

i thought it was a bit late when i did a V cut on this one in mid aug last year. but the tree didnt skip a beat, progression is here

Acer Katsura project#1

From a nursery tree. again this one picked out for its exceptionally good roots that will only improve. tree has a good, solid trunk. i like the branch structure on this one, still very raw, but i see a very natural image down the line 20190320_204135 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr 20190320_160818 by...

www.bonsainut.com

last pic was the tree yest

The tree looks great too!