penumbra
Imperial Masterpiece
That being the case, get them while they are dormant if you must get them.
Too late to collect?
- Thread starter 19Mateo83
- Start date
ShadyStump
Imperial Masterpiece
I believe a well rounded collection includes trees in all stages of growth and styling, and a fair amount of things for giving away to curious youngsters, and handing down to the next generation of bonsai people to be completed when you're dead.
To me, knowing that some of these project trees will out-last me, and that some of those might out-last my children, is part of the romance of it. In fact I hope I start a new tree the day I die.
I won't wax existential on you- you can see where it would go- but I'll say that there is a difference between doing bonsai and having bonsai, and to me the knowledge and acceptance, even the gleeful anticipation, of some projects not being completed in your lifetime is doing.
That said, finish something, or there was no point in starting.
To me, knowing that some of these project trees will out-last me, and that some of those might out-last my children, is part of the romance of it. In fact I hope I start a new tree the day I die.
I won't wax existential on you- you can see where it would go- but I'll say that there is a difference between doing bonsai and having bonsai, and to me the knowledge and acceptance, even the gleeful anticipation, of some projects not being completed in your lifetime is doing.
That said, finish something, or there was no point in starting.
HorseloverFat
Squarepants with Conkers
ShadyStump
Imperial Masterpiece
DIBS!
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
@ShadyStump no way a dude with an avatar like that is up to shinanigans! Lol!
I dig with sticks and rocks, even at home, though I will be purchasing those licence plates next time I hit the thrift store!
I was thinking White Oak is the one supremely bad Oak.
Oak has a difficulty, they call white Oak impossible, and it's a seedling....3 strikes.
So while I wouldn't discount the education, I wouldn't spend much hope time on making them bonsais.
Sorce
I dig with sticks and rocks, even at home, though I will be purchasing those licence plates next time I hit the thrift store!
I was thinking White Oak is the one supremely bad Oak.
Oak has a difficulty, they call white Oak impossible, and it's a seedling....3 strikes.
So while I wouldn't discount the education, I wouldn't spend much hope time on making them bonsais.
Sorce
HorseloverFat
Squarepants with Conkers
ShadyStump
Imperial Masterpiece
At this point I'm taking a que from @HorseloverFat and just collecting anything I can find, then put a sign in the front yard advertising plants for sale.
HorseloverFat
Squarepants with Conkers
It's an important stage to go through...
I Also collect RubRum seedlings, in Kitty-litter containers (or other large containers) and grow them up and out.. and sell them (cheap) as landscape trees. I've done this with young hemlock and thuja, as well. Under 1/2" in diameter, on public land in wisconsin.... you want it? it's yours.
The "Original Gangsters" of Bonsai presenting their feelings here ARE right about seedlings and especially oaks being a LONG... SLOW-GOING.. SLOW to "pay out" Process/processes... That may never see "refinement" within OUR lives..(Oak-Specific)
Buuut I'm gonna be spending my days taking care of a large amount of plants ANYWAYS.,. and I LOVE plants... I'll just alter my expectations of the seedlings and carry them AND my love of 'flora' with me on my journey.
Frozentreehugger
Masterpiece
When my daughter was about 12 . She told me she loved it at our cottage . Only bad thing said was there was no cell phone signal or TV . I told her those were 2 of my favourite things about the place . Now at 18 she understands
Frozentreehugger
Masterpiece
It’s the journey not the destinationIt's an important stage to go through...
I Also collect RubRum seedlings, in Kitty-litter containers (or other large containers) and grow them up and out.. and sell them (cheap) as landscape trees. I've done this with young hemlock and thuja, as well. Under 1/2" in diameter, on public land in wisconsin.... you want it? it's yours.
The "Original Gangsters" of Bonsai presenting their feelings here ARE right about seedlings and especially oaks being a LONG... SLOW-GOING.. SLOW to "pay out" Process/processes... That may never see "refinement" within OUR lives..(Oak-Specific)
Buuut I'm gonna be spending my days taking care of a large amount of plants ANYWAYS.,. and I LOVE plants... I'll just alter my expectations of the seedlings and carry them AND my love of 'flora' with me on my journey.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Well, sometimes it IS about the destination. The older I get, the destination is a reward for a long period of work.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
FWIW, I know I sound like a cranky old bastard (and probably am). BUT the "gotta do it myself from scratch or it's not 'my' tree" line of thinking is a very old one in U.S. bonsai. Historically, in Japan that approach was NEVER part of bonsai. That purist attitude has held American bonsai back by about a decade behind Europe--IMO, where the 'rugged DYI pioneer' approach isn't as sacred.
That "seeds are the pristine path," "it's gotta be MY tree" "WOW look at all these free seedlings," BS neutralizes development of a lot of potentially excellent trees and bonsaiists. Yeah, nothing wrong with seeds and seedlings. But if that's where you think the best trees will come from, it's a problem. Concentrating on those sources doesn't give new bonsaists any skills, or provide much inspiration or stretch their abilities. More advanced stock does that.
Sure work with seeds and seedlings if that floats your boat, but widen your horizons to more advanced (and yes, more expensive) stock.
HorseloverFat
Squarepants with Conkers
Hehe! Totally!
My work with seeds/seedlings is mostly based upon my utter fascination with THAT stage of development.. taking 3 years and getting that primary trunk movement and first branch area set.. and beginning taper, Stunt stress and low-N those first two years to shorten internodes and even double-down to previously non-active maristem points! I just truly ENJOY working stock at this particular stage.... and plan to share and distribute these "interesting beginnings" for the love of Tiny Trees.
Buuuut if this was ALL i did... I'd go crazy!
Working on actual TREES is notoriously rewarding... and "The way to go" for Bonsai purposes...
Frozentreehugger
Masterpiece
Nice little oaks 
bonsai is a tree in a pot 
Yes everyone interested in the pastime should have stuff they can actually work on . But what you enjoy about it is up to you . Recently I watched a vid of a Japanese man in his 70 s showing his bonsai garden . He had amazing trees mostly white pine . They were in groups by age . 30. 60 90 120 180 years old depending on which generation of his family planted them from seed
bonsai is a tree in a pot Yes everyone interested in the pastime should have stuff they can actually work on . But what you enjoy about it is up to you . Recently I watched a vid of a Japanese man in his 70 s showing his bonsai garden . He had amazing trees mostly white pine . They were in groups by age . 30. 60 90 120 180 years old depending on which generation of his family planted them from seedTbe idea of a tree in a pot was started by Chinese monks . And they were trees collected in the mountains . It was a spiritual thing collecting training contemplation . All fine the finest bonsai that exist today are Yamadori collected a long time ago by the Japanese . I do disagree with you a little if Japanese stuff was and is grown from. Seed . I don’t see growing from seed as a ritual thing . Just another avenue . And as far as im concerned the finest Yamadori on this planet is in North America . And yes mature trees are rewarding to work on . But one could argue that the. Person growing from seed even when plants are young . Is doing more bonsai . Than the person that just uses his bank account to purchase a finished tree . And just does light maintenance to it . There is a vastness to enjoy here . Don’t think there should be pigeon holes of correct . And rewarding and what is bonsai
19Mateo83
Masterpiece
I enjoy trees. I do sell quite a few but I genuinely enjoy growing trees. Will these ever end up as quality bonsai trees? Probably no. Will I enjoy the challenge of keeping them small in pots and trying to get them ramify and their reduce leaves? Oh heck yes! I probably will never have a show quality tree and if I did I probably will not care about showing it at a show. I don’t want everything I do to be strictly the “Japanese way” of bonsai, I’m in America. This is American bonsai. I like the idea of growing local trees and I’m doing what I enjoy and what makes me happy and to me that is what my bonsai journey is all about.
Anywho. Here is the selected few little oaks all potted up. Hopefully they make it.
Anywho. Here is the selected few little oaks all potted up. Hopefully they make it.
Attachments
19Mateo83
Masterpiece
Always shinanigans!
Is that Lake Norman? Just came up thru there (I77) yesterday and noticed Red Buds in bloom everywhere. We were going to stop and splash the boat for a day or two but the weather wasn't looking too good for that.
I have a Jap Maple to dig very soon up here in Ohio.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Seed is not really a beginner's path in Japan. Seed is planted and tended there by people who have been doing bonsai for generations, -- which is why the guy had several generations of seed-grown trees. The generation that planted the seed probably didn't work it. Being that our bonsai tradition in the west is roughly 70 years old, there are not RELIABLE means of passing trees on. What you work on in your lifetime most likely ends with YOU. There will be no one to pick up where you left off-unless your trees are very lucky and someone gets to them before they die...unromantic, but true.Nice little oaks
Tbe idea of a tree in a pot was started by Chinese monks . And they were trees collected in the mountains . It was a spiritual thing collecting training contemplation . All fine the finest bonsai that exist today are Yamadori collected a long time ago by the Japanese . I do disagree with you a little if Japanese stuff was and is grown from. Seed . I don’t see growing from seed as a ritual thing . Just another avenue . And as far as im concerned the finest Yamadori on this planet is in North America . And yes mature trees are rewarding to work on . But one could argue that the. Person growing from seed even when plants are young . Is doing more bonsai . Than the person that just uses his bank account to purchase a finished tree . And just does light maintenance to it . There is a vastness to enjoy here . Don’t think there should be pigeon holes of correct . And rewarding and what is bonsai
Your history leaves out some important facts about Japanese bonsai. For one, most of the yamadori in Japan is collected already. It's not common on mountainsides. Also, WWII also took a heavy toll on older bonsai, destroying a high number of them. That destruction is the reason why the major bonsai nurseries moved from urban centers to Omiya post-war. Additionally, Post-war bonsaiists turned to "lesser" materials-- saplings and seedlings--because of the scarcity of yamadori and decent, older refined trees.
And no, a person growing from seed is not doing or learning more bonsai than someone working on decent stock for the same time...And, FWIW, "using the bank account to purchase a finished tree" and "just does light maintenance" is the kind of thinking that has held US bonsai back for years. It's a complete misunderstanding of what's going on and shows an ignorance of not working on more established trees.
And yeah, I agree the West has vastly superior yamadori and plenty of it. Life's short. Why mess around with seed?
19Mateo83
Masterpiece
Good guess. It’s badin lake near albemarle
Frozentreehugger
Masterpiece
I mentioned the YamadoriI.in Japan was collected in the past . I am aware that west does not have the same . Length of time to build the traditions . They have and was not actually trying to compare west to east . I agree with you that . We should work on more advanced material . For its rewards and learning curve . All I was really trying to say was there is nothing wrong . With enjoying bonsai from scratch . Just like there is nothing wrong . With buying a finished bonsai . Unfortunately what you said about most of our trees is very true . They will not continue after we are dead . I mainly disagreed that starting from seedlings is not doing bonsai . I understand your . Opinion and it is a great idea to encourage people to work on more developed trees to expand . And you make very good points about . Best use of your time in the pastime .
