Too much indoor light for my tropicals?

[cbrshadow23]

I recently brought my plants indoors since the temperatures are cooling down and we're getting into the wet/foggy season.
My plants are:
- Portulacaria Afra Cork Bark ("Dwarf Jade", "Elephant Bush", etc)
- Crassula Ovata (Jade)

I'm wondering if I have too much light on these plants to the point that I'm hurting/burning/bleaching them. Is this likely given the setup I have below?

- I'm using a shelving rack from Home Depot (65" x 30" x 60")
- Covered 5 sides in Diamond Print Mylar (Top is open)

Lighting:
- (1x) Fiet Electric 120W Full Spectrum LED. This is incredibly bright

3ft Full Spectrum LED Plant Grow Light - Feit Electric

Grow better, stronger plants with the Feit Electric Full Spectrum 3ft LED Grow Light. Rated for high humidity, it’s ideal for all phases of indoor plant growth and is suitable for soil or hydroponic gardens. Instant full brightness lamps are integrated directly into the fixture so there are no...

www.feit.com

- (3x) "Hybrid" (T5 + LED) 80W each, 24" strips. (A friend of mine makes these)

Hybrid LED/Fluorescent High Efficiency Grow Lights

Hybrid LED/Fluorescent High Efficiency Grow Lights - Combines the best attributes of LED and Fluorescent technology for a healthy and perfectly balanced high efficiency light output. - High Power...

sfbay.craigslist.org

Total energy pull is ~350w, measured by a meter.
The plants aren't getting a ton of heat, but I'm still running a fan across the lights to keep the heat down a bit.

The lights are on a timer, which I currently have running for 12 hours per day (5:00AM - 5:00PM).

I'm a bit worried that I'm providing too much light and doing harm to my plants. It's hard to tell how bright it is in the pictures below, since the camera adjusts for brightness, but it's incredibly bright.
I've seen on other forums where the standard response is "More light is better" but they're typically referring to pretty weak setups with 9W LED's in a large open room.

Questions:
1) Is it likely that I'm providing too much light to my plants?
2) Is 12 hours per day a good amount of time to run the lights? I can easily run more or less if needed.
3) Since I'm expecting them to grow this winter, should I still provide fertilizer?

Here are some pictures of the setup.

 

[cbroad]

I haven't used LEDs but a 120w LED fixture isn't that strong I think, even though it seems really bright to you. I've never heard of the hybrid fixtures, those are pretty cool though! When the jade's leaves get red tinged on the edges, you know then that they're getting good light.

In my opinion, this setup shouldn't be too much for the plants you'll be growing. Running the fan is definitely a good idea since it's basically an enclosed setup. 12 hours on would be the minimum I'd run them, up to about 18 on; really, I would just have the lights turn on and off when it makes sense for you, meaning if this is in a normal living space and you don't want lights to interfere with sleep, etc.

 

[cbroad]

I saw your other post about the monster jade. Where is the big jade going to go, another separate light for it?

 

[cbrshadow23]

I saw your other post about the monster jade. Where is the big jade going to go, another separate light for it?

Yes once the big jade comes back to life (Since the bare-rooting and root chop it's dormant and not growing again yet) I'll bring it indoors to this same setup. Right now I have some random plants in there, but I'll make room for the big jade later.

 

[cbrshadow23]

I haven't used LEDs but a 120w LED fixture isn't that strong I think, even though it seems really bright to you. I've never heard of the hybrid fixtures, those are pretty cool though! When the jade's leaves get red tinged on the edges, you know then that they're getting good light.

In my opinion, this setup shouldn't be too much for the plants you'll be growing. Running the fan is definitely a good idea since it's basically an enclosed setup. 12 hours on would be the minimum I'd run them, up to about 18 on; really, I would just have the lights turn on and off when it makes sense for you, meaning if this is in a normal living space and you don't want lights to interfere with sleep, etc.

Wow I thought I was pushing the high end with 12 hours. 18 seems like a lot, but I'm new to this. How will I know if I'm giving them too much? Too much intensity vs too much duration? Meaning, what are the effects of too much light intensity, and too much light duration. Why not do 20+ hours? I'm genuinely curious, not being a smart ass
This setup is in a spare bedroom and the light wont bother anyone, so there's no real upper limit (logistically) to how long I can have these running.
Random side note: I calculated that this whole setup would cost me $25/mth in power if I run it 24/7.

All feedback welcome.

 

[cbroad]

pushing the high end with 12 hours. 18 seems like a lot

Since they won't be getting supplemental light from a window or something, 12 hours or less could trigger dormancy or senesence in some plants. Supposedly running the lights 24 hours doesn't add too much for plant growth and could even hinder it. If it was me, I wouldn't go below 15 hours of light, and wouldn't go above 18 hours.

You probably won't have too much light, as jades and portulacaria can take full sun. You won't get close to full sun with those lights, so you should be safe. The jades will get red leaf margins when they're getting plenty of light.

I won't get into the too much light duration topic because I'm not positive, but from what I've read, I think it can hinder cell division and CO2 uptake.

 

[cbrshadow23]

Since they won't be getting supplemental light from a window or something, 12 hours or less could trigger dormancy or senesence in some plants. Supposedly running the lights 24 hours doesn't add too much for plant growth and could even hinder it. If it was me, I wouldn't go below 15 hours of light, and wouldn't go above 18 hours.

You probably won't have too much light, as jades and portulacaria can take full sun. You won't get close to full sun with those lights, so you should be safe. The jades will get red leaf margins when they're getting plenty of light.

I won't get into the too much light duration topic because I'm not positive, but from what I've read, I think it can hinder cell division and CO2 uptake.

Thanks for the info. Is there a calculation/metric to compare a lighting setup to match the outdoor sun? I'm sure if someone packed a chamber with powerful LED's they could match or exceed what the sun puts out, correct?

My area does still get direct sunlight during the day, but the days are getting shorter and it's getting cold at night. I like that the indoor setup has very few variables but I want to be sure I'm providing them with adequate lighting, even if that means purchasing another powerful LED panel.

 

[leatherback]

I am trying to understand why you are getting these indoors. Looks to me you have the perfect climate for growing these outside yearround?

 

[cbroad]

match or exceed what the sun puts out

I think the sun's output is somewhere around 100,000 lumens/meter^2 (lux). I bet with your lights running, you'd probably only be around 30k lumens, maybe less.

 

[cbrshadow23]

I am trying to understand why you are getting these indoors. Looks to me you have the perfect climate for growing these outside yearround?

Daly City, CA is has a micro-climate that brings fog through daily in certain parts of the year. The not only blocks the sun, but also brings in lots of moisture. I see lots of crassula ovata in people's yards here, but I've never seen portulacaria. I think it's too wet and not warm enough for portulacaria to do well here all year.

 

[cbrshadow23]

I think the sun's output is somewhere around 100,000 lumens/meter^2 (lux). I bet with your lights running, you'd probably only be around 30k lumens, maybe less.

Thanks that's a good reference. It sounds like I might do better this winter if I pick up another powerful LED for this setup.
Human eyes must not be a good sensor for lumens - I can easily be in direct sunlight all day without issue, but 10 minutes with my 120w LED strip = a headache for sure.

 

[PeaceLoveBonsai]

Daly City, CA is has a micro-climate that brings fog through daily in certain parts of the year. The not only blocks the sun, but also brings in lots of moisture. I see lots of crassula ovata in people's yards here, but I've never seen portulacaria. I think it's too wet and not warm enough for portulacaria to do well here all year.

I think you may be wrong. Ports will do just fine in your weather. And they luuuuv water. Just b/c they can survive w/o it doesn’t mean they don’t like it. Foggy / shady conditions are still better than grow lights.

 

[cbrshadow23]

I think you may be wrong. Ports will do just fine in your weather. And they luuuuv water. Just b/c they can survive w/o it doesn’t mean they don’t like it. Foggy / shady conditions are still better than grow lights.

Yeah something doesn't add up, or it's just a coincidence on my end. I treat my Crassula and Portulacaria the same way and noticed that the Crassula grow quite fast while the Portulacaria have slowed down growth dramatically in the last few weeks. When I say it gets wet here I'm not talking about a shower and then the sun comes back.. I'm talking about cool gloomy weather and things are constantly wet and mossy and can possibly stay wet for long periods of time.
I have several ports in the yard still, so I'll compare the growth between plants after 1 month.

I still don't really understand how/why indoor lights can't actually be better than the sun. Is it the intensity that can't be matched? Even with more lights? Is there something else that the sun is providing that isn't possible with indoor lights? If I can match the sun's intensity but I can keep it on for 18 hours per day, surely that's better than a plant being in direct sunlight for 1 hour per day, plus indirect sunlight for 8 hours?

Again, I'm genuinely curious about this stuff and not just trying to push back on advice given here.

 

[MrWunderful]

Daly City, CA is has a micro-climate that brings fog through daily in certain parts of the year. The not only blocks the sun, but also brings in lots of moisture. I see lots of crassula ovata in people's yards here, but I've never seen portulacaria. I think it's too wet and not warm enough for portulacaria to do well here all year.

It must be something else, I just pruned mine today after pruning in mid september. Mine are still exploding with Growth. I dont get “as” much fog as daily city but its the same micro climate and mine stay outside all year.

 

[Matt H.]

I am trying to understand why you are getting these indoors. Looks to me you have the perfect climate for growing these outside yearround?

My daughter in San Francisco theoretically has the same climate that I do in Fort Lauderdale, 10B, however there is no way we can grow the same plants. The USDA zone being about minimum temperature, the average temperatures and amount of sunlight are totally different...

 

[cbrshadow23]

It must be something else, I just pruned mine today after pruning in mid september. Mine are still exploding with Growth. I dont get “as” much fog as daily city but its the same micro climate and mine stay outside all year.

I've only had my plants in this grow box for about a week now so I can't really compare to my outdoor plants yet. I'll post back here in a month with a true comparison. It sounds like for now I may need more lights for the indoor setup though.
Last year I kept a lot of succulents outdoors and lost many of them to the cold and/or extreme wet, I believe. The warm/dry weather couldn't come soon enough for my Golem Jades.
What's strange about Daly City is that if you drive 10 miles north or south there's little or no fog.
Curious, have you ever seen portulacaria planted in someone's yard in Daly City, San Francisco or any other nearby cities? For the last couple of months I've really paid attention when driving around or walking the dogs and havne't seen a single example yet. I always figured this was because they don't grow well in the area, where Crassula Ovata does (and are seemingly at every 3rd house)

 

[coltranem]

Thanks that's a good reference. It sounds like I might do better this winter if I pick up another powerful LED for this setup.
Human eyes must not be a good sensor for lumens - I can easily be in direct sunlight all day without issue, but 10 minutes with my 120w LED strip = a headache for sure.

Our pupils dilate to adjust for brightness they are terrible light meters. Your not going to match the sun unless maybe you constantly arc weld in front of your tree or maybe a nuclear bomb.

 

[cbrshadow23]

Our pupils dilate to adjust for brightness they are terrible light meters. Your not going to match the sun unless maybe you constantly arc weld in front of your tree or maybe a nuclear bomb.

I’ll avoid the nuclear bomb
Does this go for all types of sunlight? I’m sure the sun isn’t as strong in Ireland as it is in south Florida, so does it make sense to grow indoors in Ireland? I’m actually wondering how this works. Here in Daly City we might get a day with full sun, or a day with very little or no direct sun.

I find some things in the plant world to have conflicting information about portulacaria which makes things difficult for a beginner. For example, ports are from a dry climate (South Africa) and people say to water only when the leaves show wrinkling. This is extremely common advice. I also read above that ports love water and will do great in damp/foggy climates. It’s hard to tell what is ideal

 

[canoeguide]

In my experience, P. afra tend to tolerate more watering than C. ovata. Both can tolerate a great amount of water, so long as they are in fast draining and largely inorganic soil, and have not recently been repotted.

Both basically want all the light they can get.