too much neem oil?

[Ross]

I sprayed one of my favorite elm trees with neem oil yesterday. The directions indicated a 2tbsp/gallon dilution, and I thought I had proportioned it out properly into my little spray bottle, but now the tree looks like it might be dying, almost overnight. Most of the leaves now have a bunch of little black spots on them, and some are wilted or falling off. The stems that were growing a strong red have turned almost black. Did I mix too strong of a concentration, or did I suffocate the thing by covering it too much? Are there any steps I can take to try and save the one I sprayed? Any help is appreciated.

 

[Poink88]

Put all treated plants under shade!

Neem oil is...OIL. It gets hot fast specially in TX and will cook/fry your leaves. I usually use it only on plants in full shade or during the colder months.

Good luck!

 

[Poink88]

BTW, did you add dishwashing liquid (as emulsifier) in your solution?

 

[Ross]

BTW, did you add dishwashing liquid (as emulsifier) in your solution?

I didn't use any dishwashing liquid. It was in pretty good sun though. I've been rinsing and rinsing the heck out of it this morning, trying to get it off, but it probably isn't helping much. Would dishwashing liquid help take it off? I'm headed to work in an hour so I'm gonna rinse it again and put it in the shade, then hope for the best.

 

[Poink88]

I didn't use any dishwashing liquid.

That is your first and biggest mistake. W/o the emulsifier, you may have applied full strength on some since oil and water do not mix w/o an emulsifier (technically they still do not mix but the oil is broken down enough to mix and create an emulsion).

Yes, dishwashing liquid will help wash it off just protect the roots (cover it or tilt it so the soap doesn't go to the pot).

It was 90*F plus yesterday here so not a good time to be spraying oil in TX now.

Good luck!

 

[Jason_mazzy]

I used apray Pam for aphids in full shade or indoors. Then Dawn and water 24 hours later sprayed on mist set for a few minutes rinse and repeat a couple times.

 

[Poink88]

BTW, why did you spray the Elms? I hardly get any pests on those so I am wondering about that also. Only pest I can recall on elms is the one that causes leaf gall. (I still don't know what they are and what they look like).

 

[Ross]

BTW, why did you spray the Elms? I hardly get any pests on those so I am wondering about that also. Only pest I can recall on elms is the one that causes leaf gall. (I still don't know what they are and what they look like).

I only sprayed one elm. I have seen scale on a fair share of my elms, and was hoping the neem could help save me the trouble of picking the scale off one by one.

 

[october]

Hi Ross.. Shouldn't be a problem, it could be the heat of the sun or the tree simply does not like the neem oil. Also, the leaves might all die and fall off, but the tree will probably be fine. It is when roots of the elm get damaged, then you have a problem.

Years ago I sprayed a pyracantha with a pyrethrin spray. Shortly after, practically all the leaves died. Shortly after that, the tree grew all new leaves and came back as healthy as ever. Even if your elm loses leaves. Hold onto it for a while after that.

I would recommend the home made stuff.

1-2 table spoon dishwashing liquid like ivory.
1 table spoon vegetable oil mixed with 1 gallon of water.
Pour the mixture in a spray bottle. Then add one capful of rubbing alcohol (the cap from the alcohol). Shake well and mist all areas of the tree including the undersides. Wash off after 24 hours.

Rob

 

[Ross]

Thanks Rob. I haven't done anything but rinse the leaves and branches and set it in the shade. Would you recommend trying to clear up the oil with a dish soap and water mix, or would you just leave it alone and hope for a fresh set of leaves? Thanks.

 

[october]

I would not do anything but leave it in the shade for maybe a week. Water when needed. The tree will probably not need as much water as usual due to the foliage loss. However, you will need to watch it closely.

Rob

 

[daytona1911]

I like neem, I use it on almost all of my trees. But There are a few that tend to not like oils and elm is one. I always spray at the end of the day so the sun isn't hitting foliage intensely. Then I give it a pressured spray in the morning . With Dawn as a surfectant, it reliquifies and helps wash off the oil from the leaves. Its work, but it works and doesn't affect predator insects applied at that time either.

 

[jkd2572]

BTW, why did you spray the Elms? I hardly get any pests on those so I am wondering about that also. Only pest I can recall on elms is the one that causes leaf gall. (I still don't know what they are and what they look like).

I found spider mites on my elms today. Never have seen it before. Looked at those scary little bastards under a magnifying loop. Bombed the whole collection with Bayer. There was spider mites on everything. Worst outbreak I have ever seen. My back yard is a war zone.

 

[Poink88]

Jeremy,

Which Bayer product did you use? Need to start building my arsenal.

 

[jkd2572]

Bayer advanced 3-in-1 insect, disease and mite control. Mixed in a two gallon sprayer. No survivors.

 

[Ross]

another question re: pyracantha

The Elm that didn't like the neem oil is starting to bounce back. It looks like I lost a couple of the smallest branches, but new buds are starting to show most everywhere, so that's a good sign. Now I have aphids all over my Pyracantha, and while there are a bunch of ladybugs on most of my plants, this one in particular has ants living on/in the trunk, and they guard and feed off the aphids. I'm using a Borax and sugar mix on a plate to try and kill off the ants, but I don't want to wait for the ants to die, then wait for the ladybugs to mosey over and eat the aphids. I'd like to spray the tree to kill and repel the aphids, but after my bad experience with the neem oil, and seeing Rob's mention of his Pyracantha not liking the pyrethrin oil, I'm hesitant to use any oil on it. I have read that some plants are sensitive to vinegar as well, so I don't know if that is a safe option. Basically, I want to know what is the safest way to get these aphids off the pyracantha considering it is in full sun, and it is too big to move into the shade unless I really have to. Thanks.

 

[october]

Blast them off with the hose. Especially from underneath the tree. Do it as needed. If that doesn't seem to work, maybe try the homemade pesticide solution. I would spray a bit on the back of the tree to see how it affects it first. Also, protect the soil. Try to save the lady bugs

Hang in there. Sometimes it can become really overwhelming when you have one pest after another and fungal diseases on top of it. The thing is, almost everyone in bonsai, including the nurseries are going through the same thing.

Rob

 

[Poink88]

A home remedy I tried that worked...

Mix water and milk (regular, low fat doesn't matter) 50%-50% in a spray bottle
Add a pump of regular dishwashing liquid (NOT anti bacterial).

Spray plants. It smells really good too.

If solution is not finished you can keep it in the refrigerator up to 2 days.

The solution will leave a shiny coating in your leaves but will eventually flake off in a day or so. The aphids are supposed to die because the lactic acid in the milk will eat through their exoskeleton. Not sure how true that is but it worked for me after 3 treatments (a day or 2 apart each)

I hardly do this now after using Bayer Tree and Shrub.

Worth a try if you want to avoid the chemicals.

 

[Ross]

Well it looks like it may be fairly overcast here for a couple days, so I decided to take the neem oil mix I had already made, diluted it almost in half again with water, added a pump of dishwashing liquid, and a hefty capful of vinegar. I sprayed just the ends of a couple branches to test and see how it reacts over 24 hours, and if all looks good in the morning I plan on spraying it fully.