Tree sources

Dwight

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I have a feeling I'm either gonna get pounded or ignored for this but I'm upset about not being able to go find nice material. The threads involving the terribly overpriced JBPs on e-pay have inspired me. Whewn da Nut set up this forum he put in a topic for folks offering material , pots , tools , etc. for sale. Know how many topics are there ??????? NONE ( see below)

Now here's my problem. I " know " a fiew dealers from the forumns but they don't know me from squat. I've bought two trees from these guys and lost both ( probably my fault so I'm not faulting the dealers cause they are both good guys ). Prices were fair and I'll buy from both again when I gain a little experience. I also browse the web regularly to find trees but all I find are terribly over priced material or sticks in pots. The nearest nursery that I am aware of is 450 mi away. Now I know I'm not the only fool in this predicimant. Regular nurseries arn't very good sources cause I don't really have enough experience to find decent stock there.

Sooooooo , after all this rambling I'm asking why no one ever posts stock for sale. I remember some talk about " professiona; " vs " ameture " but that doesn't help me at all. It's the " pros " I want to buy from. Maybe they are doing so good they don't need to post their medium range stock here ( yea , right ) but it sure would help. Many of their sites don't even have medium ( less than $500 ) stock listed. So waht I'm asking ...can someone start posting their stuff here , say Oregon Bonsai who never updates their site anyway or some of you guys who never post stock on your own sites. PLEASE !!!!!!!!!!!

Oops , I made a booboo....in the section for trees for sale there are five or six threads but none of them actually offer what some of us lone wolves ( domesticated and house trained ) are looking for
 
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irene_b

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Dwight I can name a few that I have personally done buisness with that are in my opionon fantastic folks to deal with and know what they are selling and not trying to scam me out of money.
And each is willing to take pics of what they have and send them to you.
www.shadysidebonsai.com
Owner tachigi/Tom Brown has great trees and not them stick in the pots trees, is knowledgeable about his products and will walk ya thru any problems that you may have.
www.sonlightnursery.com
Owner Frank Kroeker has great trees and not them stick in the pots trees, is knowledgeable about his products and will walk ya thru any problems that you may have.
on the individual sellers:
agraham Andy has some fantastic ficus and tropicals and he will ship and also has other items (lava, pots).
Most of these folks are members here except Frank who is a regular at BonsaiTalk as well as the others.
There are others who are also sellers at BT and ya need to perhaps start a thread there as well.
Irene
 

Dwight

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Thanks Irene. I'd add Brent at Evergreen as well as Mehanns Minatures. I've never bought anything from Andy at Golden arrow but he seems to enjoy a good rep.

What I don't understand is why these folk don't at least let us know when they have new stock or maybe when they get something that idiots like me would appreciate and understand. Maybe it's just too much trouble.

PS Thanks for not ignoring me.
 

irene_b

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Dwight, I think its a case of not tooting their own horns, plus it is kinda frowned upon at most sites.
Kinda like using the site to sell their wares..
Irene
 

Dwight

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Bonsai folk not tootoin their own horn !!!!!!! Who ever heard of such a thing ??????

Seriously Irene I hear you but think it's kinda rediculous to NOT take advantage of this forum ( if the Nut allows ). These people spend time here , offer advice and aid to us idiots and have a much larger service to offer as well. Damn , I'd love to know how to get my hands on a Cal juni. And it would be really nice if Brent posted some shots of more mature trees he has. This is just scratching the surface. I know there are a handfull more , maybe because of this stupid user name stuff we don't even know about , that couldn't hurt their business by posting trees , pots , stands , etc here.

I'd love to see some of Dales trees that he's so mysterious about. I'll probably never get near his shop ( 2000 mi ???? ) so this would be a perfect place.
 
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darrellw

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And it would be really nice if Brent posted some shots of more mature trees he has.

While I too would like to be able to virtually browse Brent's stock, I understand the amount of work that it would be for him to do that, and I'd rather have him spend his limited time sharing his wisdom in the forums or on his blog. You can always send him email describing what you are looking for, and I've found him to be very responsive that way. I can't really speak for other vendors, but I would be willing to bet that most would respond the same way, particularly if you have some connection, even just the virtual one we have here, with them.

-Darrell
 

Dwight

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You might be right Darrell , I know from his blog that Brent is a busy guy but just a few shots to wet our appatite. I also believe he was planning to do something along these lines on his own site. Really though , how hard is it to take a few shots or just maybe use those they have taken for others who requested them then turned down the tree ?

I think this erks me because I'm active on a couple of koi sites and they have lots of this going on. Also if you visit the leading koi dealers sites ( there are quite a few ) they are often full of pictures. I have a sneaking suspicion that photographing koi is a bit more difficult than snapshots of bonsai stock. Then of course koi tend to be more expensive than bonsai so the financial incentive is stronger.
 

rlist

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I'll let Jason answer exactly why there haven't been updates in quite a while (on OB), but for the most part I would guess there isn't any new trees to post. Huh?

Well, yes we do have frequent collecting trips and harvests from the field from time to time. But, as we want to ensure trees are healthy and ready to be shipped across the country we want to have them established for at least one year - sometimes two. Because of this, and the fact that we get hammered from people that come and visit (95% of the sales are from visitors - and at times that whipes out inventory), not too many trees make it to the internet.

That said, there should be a good quantity of trees going on the site in the spring - from the large maples to collected material.

In ther interim, I suggest you check out the previously listed vendors (Tom or Frank, whom I both know personally and recommend them) or check out Diane Lund's stock at www.weetree.com - she has material ready to ship and listed online.
 

Dwight

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Thanks Rich, that as least makes good sense ( not that Irene and Darryll didn't ). Now I'd like to hear from some other dealers.

PS anyone knotice how polite I'm being ?
 

Rick Moquin

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It's the " pros " I want to buy from. Maybe they are doing so good they don't need to post their medium range stock here ( yea , right ) but it sure would help. Many of their sites don't even have medium ( less than $500 ) stock listed.

Dwight,

I'm in the same predicament as you, well almost. The closest bonsai anything near me is 760 miles away, hence why I buy from nurseries.

When it comes to the "pros" they are in their own league and I'm sorry to say, the average enthusiast cannot afford their trees, you and myself included. These trees are indeed for sale trade etc... just not advertised at large, and will never be seen on evil bay. Why? Pride and integrity. There is no need to use the net as a venue, because these trees are exchanged and sold daily underground for the lack of a better word.

Walter recently paid $1500 for a pice of yamadori. To him it was a bargain to our untrained eyes, overpriced. Let's face it we want to play with the big boys, but need to acquire the equipment first IMO. So in the mean time we can salivate.

What is the solution? Stop wasting our money for mallsai etc... and save up for a couple of years and acquire as much as we can during a trip to a reputable outlet. In the mean time we can learn and play with mallsai or nursery stock until we have the skills to keep expensive material alive and take them where they need to go.

This might seem harsh, but it is the cold facts and reality of life. No offense intended.

Best regards,
Rick

PS: What would you pay for Walter's famous maple? A hint, BN's mortgage wouldn't cover the cost. (no offense intended Greg)
 
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Dwight

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What is the solution? Stop wasting our money for mallsai etc... and save up for a couple of years and acquire as much as we can during a trip to a reputable outlet. In the mean time we can learn and play with mallsai or nursery stock until we have the skills to keep expensive material alive and take them where they need to go.

This might seem harsh, but it is the cold facts and reality of life. No offense intended.

Best regards,
Rick

PS: What would you pay for Walter's famous maple? A hint, BN's mortgage wouldn't cover the cost. (no offense intended Greg)

Not harsh at all and very close to my " plan ". I've asked this question at least once on every forum I've found and get basically the same answer. I really think Rich is very close to the truth. Most dealers view the web as a way to get customers into their stores ( not a bad thing ) so the answer might just be to go to them.

It's a real shame too as many must feel they have to live in Cal , WA , OR or on the east coast in order to do bonsai. Maybe this also ties into the advantages the Europeans and Japanese have on us. How far can one drive or ride the train before a bonsai dealer is within walking distance ? ( I sure do envy their rail systems )

Now someone tell me where I can buy a Cal juni !!!!!!!!!!

PS , Rick , do you think da Nut has that nice of a house or is this just a refrence to overinflated Cal real estate ?
 
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imholte

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One thing to keep in mind is that it is not just taking a quick picture of a tree and post it on the net. When you have a nursery that gets lots of physical visitors it makes it difficult to maintain the balance between online trees and in person trees. You almost need to keep the two separate so that one tree isnt bought in person and online at the same time, might piss someone off.

Good material is expensive, and though some pictures can show parts of the tree you can't get that great of an idea of what can be done with the tree unless you see it in person.

I can personnaly recommend Brents trees, I sent him an email of what I was looking for and ended up with something better than I had expected. Good material
 

Dwight

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No argument here Ed , it just doesn't l;ower the frustration level to actually understand why. I agree with you aboutBrent as I've had the same experience.
 

Rick Moquin

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PS , Rick , do you think da Nut has that nice of a house or is this just a refrence to overinflated Cal real estate ?

just the view of his backyard if I remember correctly, said enough that I could approx a cost.
 

buddhamonk

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I want to echo what Dwight said with a question - why have the prices of finished and stock material increased so much in the last 2 or 3 years? Even reputable sellers have increased their prices and their trees now cost as much as what we usually see on the internet. I'll take weetree for instance who even last year would sell really good material for a low price. Look at their old website from last year 2007

http://www.weetree.com/bareroottrees2007/index.html

and compare to these trees 2008

http://www.weetree.com/index.php?cPath=78&osCsid=316f8c5f0df27e046be01f5bfb15302d

Trees that were around $150 last year are now priced at $300...and people are still buying.

I didn't buy anything when it was cheap so I'm sure not going to buy now.

I really don't want to pick on weetree because I think they do a great job and Diane is such a gracious host but this is what I've noticed in the last few years.

Personally, I only buy from club auctions... last spring in Seattle I saw trees that are sold for $1000-1500 online, go for $200-300. Just last weekend we had the Portlandbonsai club auction and the same thing happened. I was almost able to get an old large imported satsuki, previously trained by Joe Harris for $650. That thing would sell for thousands online.

Anyway, just my 2 cents
 

irene_b

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In defense of Tom and Frank....I have bought lots of damm fine trees from both and to me they were damm cheap...
Irene
 

Tachigi

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Dwight, I don't come in here peddling my wares for a couple of reasons. First this is Greg's baby and he doesn't make a dime on it. He does it for the love of bonsai...seems like it would be selfish and and diminish what he does if I or anyone else were to hawk our wares. Now if he ever starts a section for vendors I 'll be first in line. :)

Another reason I don't fly a banner is that, like you, I'm an enthusiast as well. I come here to read and share ideas...not sell. I have a lot of friends here. It seems wrong to me to invade there space. I have my web site in my signature so I figure most people will follow that to its end.

Don't get me wrong, given a pointed question about a certain product I will offer my humble advise and an invitation to the site. So if you have something in mind that I can help you with please feel free to drop me a PM. I will do what I can for you.
 

Brent

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My name has been bandied about a lot in this and related threads, so I figured I better defend myself. No, I don't promote our nursery on the forums unless it is pertinent to a thread. I think this is one of those cases where it is.

I made a lot of mistakes over the twenty five years that I have been doing this, and it took my a long time to become a good businessman as well as a good nurseryman. I spent far too many years believing the credo of 'grow it and they will come'. In fact, one of the factors that led me from general nursery business to bonsai is that the trees got more valuable if they didn't sell. So, instead of putting trees on the burn pile, I began working them up as twenty year projects. That was good and bad. There was a long learning curve, close to ten years, to figure out what I was doing. Others can profit by my mistakes since I have documented how to do it.

Not long after I started growing them for the long term, I came to a couple other valuable conclusions: 'You can't have it if you sell it' and the 'Propagator's Prerogative', which simply put, is that I get to keep the best of every crop. Because I hewed to these principles (I still mourn for some trees that I virtually GAVE away because I was desperately broke), I have amassed a collection of specimen plants that have high drool factor. I'm still not selling them, except here and there to nice people who ask for them, and I have been known to cut people off who have not treated me nicely. They can shop elsewhere.

If it takes twenty years to develop decent stock, then where do you think that stock come from? The moon? Most of it in this country is either imported or collected. Twenty year old nursery stock is a somewhat rare commodity. It comes mostly from practitioners thinning their stock or dying. Some dealers collect their material this way. I took the long route, and have never regretted it, although I had to make some serious life adjustments to manage trees for twenty years without selling them. It's not exactly like owning bonds. And they die too. I have a couple heartbreakers each year.

Another thing I have learned is that you don't announce something is coming unless it is REALLY coming. I made the mistake of creating the specimen section of the catalog about six years ago. Guess what, there still aren't enough trees ready to go out the door to use it. It just frustrates people to see empty sections like this. I should have pulled that section years ago, but I am the eternal optimist. I have also posted some of my Propagator Prerogative material on the forums only to be inundated with requests for such material when none was ready to sell. Another bad move.

But finally, things really are getting close. I have finished enough of the nursery to store such material after it is pruned and repotted, without losing track of it, or having it die because of some blocked emitter. Some material will be available next spring and summer, but the bulk is probably two years off. I have maybe 100 to 200 trees that are now trunk finished (ten to twenty years work) and there isn't anything left to do but repot into containers that will be small enough to ship. I have already started to process of weeding out loser species of the small stuff and increasing the one gallon size stuff, so that should eliminate some of the tedious work, so I can concentrate more on specimen material. Also, I'm not getting any younger, and if I don't get this started soon, it will never happen.

So, if you want to be teased with stuff you can't have, fine with me. As it so happens, I just finished pruning one of the specimen sections. I do this every three to five years, and this time was way overdue, so it was quite surprising to see what was left after about a ton of branches was removed. I call it my field of stumps.

Brent
EvergreenGardenworks.com
see our blog at http://BonsaiNurseryman.typepad.com
 

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