Tree suggestions for a newbie please

Myka

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Hello everyone! This is my first post. I've spent all my spare hours over the last week pouring through these forums. I live in a zone 2 area, and I will want to over-winter indoors. I have a nice corner of the house that has windows on both sides facing south west and south east (supplemental lighting is an option if needed). The spot is drafty since it is right beside the door we use to let the dogs outside, but maybe this would be good for some species and bad for tropicals? Would I fail miserably with the following species?

Sequoia (Sequoiadendron giganteum) (I have 2 in my sights, one is 3 ft tall, the other is about 18")
Baobab (Adansonia digitata)
Magnolia stellata
Boxwood maybe? (not sure which)
Japanese Maple maybe?

Also interested in something along the lines of cedar, cypress, and/or Larch.

One last thing, is there a book or YouTube video channel or something that goes through all the when to do what? I keep happening across tid bits of information on here that make me think there is a lot of waiting and watching, and then spring to action at the right moment, but I'm not sure what I'm waiting and watching for! I'll be starting with nursery plants. I think I've noticed that "serious bonsaists" buy plants that look to me to already be semi-trained as their starter plants. I'm not really sure what I'm looking at most of the time... ha!

Thank you for any help! Feeling a bit lost!
 

Mike Hennigan

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You can forget most of the species you listed, since most of them require a winter dormancy period. I don’t know about baobabs. I don’t know how a cold draft would affect them. Forget maples, forget sequoia, forget cedar cypress and larch. These species need to experience a cold period to remain healthy and alive. I think one of your best bets is a Chinese elm, as long as it gets enough sunlight in that window it should be ok. AND my guess is that it could tolerate cold drafts better than a ficus, but I don’t know.
 

milehigh_7

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Hello everyone! This is my first post. I've spent all my spare hours over the last week pouring through these forums. I live in a zone 2 area, and I will want to over-winter indoors. I have a nice corner of the house that has windows on both sides facing south west and south east (supplemental lighting is an option if needed). The spot is drafty since it is right beside the door we use to let the dogs outside, but maybe this would be good for some species and bad for tropicals? Would I fail miserably with the following species?

Sequoia (Sequoiadendron giganteum) (I have 2 in my sights, one is 3 ft tall, the other is about 18")
Baobab (Adansonia digitata)
Magnolia stellata
Boxwood maybe? (not sure which)
Japanese Maple maybe?

Also interested in something along the lines of cedar, cypress, and/or Larch.

One last thing, is there a book or YouTube video channel or something that goes through all the when to do what? I keep happening across tid bits of information on here that make me think there is a lot of waiting and watching, and then spring to action at the right moment, but I'm not sure what I'm waiting and watching for! I'll be starting with nursery plants. I think I've noticed that "serious bonsaists" buy plants that look to me to already be semi-trained as their starter plants. I'm not really sure what I'm looking at most of the time... ha!

Thank you for any help! Feeling a bit lost!

First off, WELCOME! Second, you need to update your profile with your location so we can give you proper advice.
 

Potawatomi13

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ZONE 2:eek:! North pole? Sequoia, Magnolia, most any conifer failure indoors. Baobab tropical OK(?). Boxwood(?) Jap maple(?) indoors in winter. Freezing just imagining zoneo_O!
 

Potawatomi13

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ZONE 2:eek:! North pole? Sequoia, Magnolia, most any conifer failure indoors. Baobab tropical OK(?). Boxwood(?) Jap maple(?) indoors in winter. Freezing just imagining zoneo_O!


I think I've noticed that "serious bonsaists" buy plants that look to me to already be semi-trained as their starter plants. I'm not really sure what I'm looking at most of the time... ha!
Partially correct. Many if not most after time passes become bored with same old plain trees and desire to see one with unusual feature(s)that fire imagination;).
 

defra

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Nursery plants are a good way to start with, esoecialy when they are native or cold hardy enough fir your climate zone...
Its the trick to pick the ones with the right things we seek in bonsai, good root spread trunk size, movement in the trunk and if lucky the primary branches more or less in the right places... :p
 

Myka

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You can forget most of the species you listed, since most of them require a winter dormancy period. I don’t know about baobabs. I don’t know how a cold draft would affect them. Forget maples, forget sequoia, forget cedar cypress and larch. These species need to experience a cold period to remain healthy and alive. I think one of your best bets is a Chinese elm, as long as it gets enough sunlight in that window it should be ok. AND my guess is that it could tolerate cold drafts better than a ficus, but I don’t know.

Hahaha thanks for the encouragement! :cool::cool: I'll look into this dormancy period. I have several heated and semi-heated outbuildings - the trick would be to get just the right amount of cold I suppose.

First off, WELCOME! Second, you need to update your profile with your location so we can give you proper advice.

Thank you! You know, I'm a member of several different forums for decades (a moderator on a couple), and I can't find the profile page on this forum where I can edit my location and everything. I see "signature", and I can find a page that I check off boxes for notification options (wow there are a lot of options on here!!). :D

EDIT: It shows up now! There must be some kind of time requirement or posting requirement that needs to be fulfilled before you can edit your profile.

ZONE 2:eek:! North pole? Sequoia, Magnolia, most any conifer failure indoors. Baobab tropical OK(?). Boxwood(?) Jap maple(?) indoors in winter. Freezing just imagining zoneo_O!

Partially correct. Many if not most after time passes become bored with same old plain trees and desire to see one with unusual feature(s)that fire imagination;).

Haha! Canadian prairies! Actually, I just looked it up, and we've been changed to 3b. Toasty!! :D

Ah, I was looking at the thread that's called something like, "Want to see $300 material?" and most of those look partially trained, no? Like, they're already shorter and wider than a typical tree.

Nursery plants are a good way to start with, esoecialy when they are native or cold hardy enough fir your climate zone...
Its the trick to pick the ones with the right things we seek in bonsai, good root spread trunk size, movement in the trunk and if lucky the primary branches more or less in the right places... :p

Well, there are plenty of native trees and shrubs here - lots of conifers, cedars. I'll have to go look around on our property - we have 80 acres, but not a single evergreen that I've noticed. Our property is mostly poplar, and some various bushes that I don't know what they are. I'm not a native of the area.
 
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Myka

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So today I went around and checked out the nurseries. They are mainly closed for the winter, and all their hardy plants are inaccessible for buying. I found a handful of Fukien Tea Trees but they were horrendous, zombie bonsai (looked more like half-dead topiaries). I found a single Stump Aralia that I bought and now I find out Aralia make crap bonsai. Oh well, it gives me something to practice wiring and trimming. Haha!

I found one place through online search that lists a bunch of hardy plants that might be suitable? I haven't seen them, so not sure if they are aesthetically suitable.

Amur Maple
Silver Willow
Mountain Ash
Black Cottonwood
 

sorce

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Amur Maple
Silver Willow
Mountain Ash
Black Cottonwood

Sounds good!

Anything local local will be the easiest.

Since you CAN and SHOULD be keeping them wintered outside....just plain old outside.

Welcome to Crazy!

Do Larch outdoors.

Sorce
 

rockm

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Do some research on dormancy before you go getting plants that require it.
This is an excellent place to start:
http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/dormancy.htm

Bottom line is successful overwintering is NOT about keeping trees "warm." It's about keeping them cold, but within livable limits. Trying to keep them warm like a pet will kill them.

You will have little success trying to keep ANY temperate species of tree indoors, unless you have a dedicated greenhouse attached to your home or one in the yard. Inside your house in the wintertime is far too warm for overwintering any of the species you mentioned at first. Humidity levels with your HVAC system even with a humidifier are close or even below humidity levels in a desert. There is also far too little light for the trees when they begin to grow inside.

Amur maple may be your best bet, but in Zone 2, it's pushing it without substantial protection --such as an enclosed space that doesn't drop below 15 F-- or better 20 F. Amur maple is extremely cold tolerant, BUT since yours will be in a container, its roots are exposed to extremes, which drops its cold hardiness considerable.

Your best bet are probably going to be "indoor" tropical species. Ficus is heat and drought tolerant and can live with lower light. It's a bulletproof choice for indoors. Shefflera is also a good choice. Chinese elm IS NOT. It basically fades away indoors with the low light and humidity.

A word on looking around at collecting what's on your property. I would do that, BUT I wouldn't dig anything up anytime soon. To do so will be to doom it to a short life and you to disappointment. Collection is NOT a way to get free material. Every one of the trees you dig up with no experience in keeping bonsai, and no experience in digging trees, will most likely die.

That's because collection and bonsai care are pretty different skill sets. Learning both at the same time is like trying to learn how to ride a unicycle and juggle at the same time. It's best to learn one or the other before trying both at the same time.
 

Myka

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Amur maple is suitable and indeed prety hardy
So are
Amelanchier and silver Berry

Thank you! Yes, Amur Maple is pretty. Around here it is considered invasive in your gardens because it seeds so readily. On our previous property we planted an Acer rubrum 'Northwood' that was MUCH prettier than the Amur. I might try to find one of these.

Sounds good!

Anything local local will be the easiest.

Since you CAN and SHOULD be keeping them wintered outside....just plain old outside.

Welcome to Crazy!

Do Larch outdoors.

Sorce

Haha, this isn't the first "crazy" hobby I enjoy! :D I can see how it would be very addictive constantly looking for THE tree. Seeing some for sale, having to "just" go and look...oh yes, I see it!

Do some research on dormancy before you go getting plants that require it.
This is an excellent place to start:
http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/dormancy.htm

Bottom line is successful overwintering is NOT about keeping trees "warm." It's about keeping them cold, but within livable limits. Trying to keep them warm like a pet will kill them.

You will have little success trying to keep ANY temperate species of tree indoors, unless you have a dedicated greenhouse attached to your home or one in the yard. Inside your house in the wintertime is far too warm for overwintering any of the species you mentioned at first. Humidity levels with your HVAC system even with a humidifier are close or even below humidity levels in a desert. There is also far too little light for the trees when they begin to grow inside.

Amur maple may be your best bet, but in Zone 2, it's pushing it without substantial protection --such as an enclosed space that doesn't drop below 15 F-- or better 20 F. Amur maple is extremely cold tolerant, BUT since yours will be in a container, its roots are exposed to extremes, which drops its cold hardiness considerable.

Your best bet are probably going to be "indoor" tropical species. Ficus is heat and drought tolerant and can live with lower light. It's a bulletproof choice for indoors. Shefflera is also a good choice. Chinese elm IS NOT. It basically fades away indoors with the low light and humidity.

A word on looking around at collecting what's on your property. I would do that, BUT I wouldn't dig anything up anytime soon. To do so will be to doom it to a short life and you to disappointment. Collection is NOT a way to get free material. Every one of the trees you dig up with no experience in keeping bonsai, and no experience in digging trees, will most likely die.

That's because collection and bonsai care are pretty different skill sets. Learning both at the same time is like trying to learn how to ride a unicycle and juggle at the same time. It's best to learn one or the other before trying both at the same time.

Thank you for the link! I have read some about dormancy, and I will read your link too. I had this "ah-ha" moment yesterday - we have a mostly-underground insulated cold storage/root cellar room attached to the outside of our house. It was used for firewood storage, but when we moved here in September we removed the firebox. This room has a door between the house and it, and is literally right beside the furnace, so running a small duct over with a controlled vent to keep the room at the right temperature would be very easy if it got too cold in there. Humidity would also need to be addressed. I could remove the tin roof and replace it with polycarbonate though I see your link says light is not required as long as the temperature is low enough. No light would make it a lot easier! I will monitor the temperature and humidity in this room this winter, and see what I'm dealing with.

EDIT: I just went and checked the temperature in there - it's 6C (43F). Outside temperature is currently -12C (10F). Humidity I'm not sure, I don't think my device is reading correctly.

Yes, collecting would be challenging I'm sure! I know I've had little success in my life trying to move shrubs around unless they are quite small.

Although I have no love for Ficus or Schefflera, I did look for some Ficus at the nurseries, and could only find braided or stumped specimens. Not much to choose from around here. I couldn't even find bonsai wire and tools at any of the nurseries.
 
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rockm

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Thank you! Yes, Amur Maple is pretty. Around here it is considered invasive in your gardens because it seeds so readily. On our previous property we planted an Acer rubrum 'Northwood' that was MUCH prettier than the Amur. I might try to find one of these.



Haha, this isn't the first "crazy" hobby I enjoy! :D I can see how it would be very addictive constantly looking for THE tree. Seeing some for sale, having to "just" go and look...oh yes, I see it!



Thank you for the link! I have read some about dormancy, and I will read your link too. I had this "ah-ha" moment yesterday - we have a mostly-underground insulated cold storage/root cellar room attached to the outside of our house. It was used for firewood storage, but when we moved here in September we removed the firebox. This room has a door between the house and it, and is literally right beside the furnace, so running a small duct over with a controlled vent to keep the room at the right temperature would be very easy if it got too cold in there. Humidity would also need to be addressed. I could remove the tin roof and replace it with polycarbonate though I see your link says light is not required as long as the temperature is low enough. No light would make it a lot easier! I will monitor the temperature and humidity in this room this winter, and see what I'm dealing with.

EDIT: I just went and checked the temperature in there - it's 6C (43F). Outside temperature is currently -12C (10F). Humidity I'm not sure, I don't think my device is reading correctly.

Yes, collecting would be challenging I'm sure! I know I've had little success in my life trying to move shrubs around unless they are quite small.

Although I have no love for Ficus or Schefflera, I did look for some Ficus at the nurseries, and could only find braided or stumped specimens. Not much to choose from around here. I couldn't even find bonsai wire and tools at any of the nurseries.

43 is too warm for dormancy. It has to remain below or at freezing. A root cellar is a good place, but, again, this is NOT about keeping trees warm. It is about keeping them as cold as they can stand it for as long as they need. Too warm means trees may not go dormant (and require light) or come out of dormancy in Feb. or even Jan. (Again requiring them to have strong sunlight to live).

Try Brussels for ficus--don't know if they can ship to Canada, but it's worth a call to ask. They got reasonably priced stuff and only a portion of what they have is online. Calling and asking for photos of trees can turn up a decent specimen.
https://brusselsbonsai.com/golden-gate-ficus-bonsai-tree-ct3004ggf/

They also sell on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Brussels-Golden-Ficus-Indoor-Bonsai/dp/B0000DGF9T

Schefflera can make excellent bonsai. The plants you have access to aren't being cultivated for that, though. Although Fuku bonsai is on the high end pricewise, their website shows what can be done with the species:
http://www.fukubonsai.com/MAIN.1.TheFuku-BonsaiStore.html
 
D

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@Myka nice to see another brace Canadian, welcome!

we have a mostly-underground insulated cold storage/root cellar room attached to the outside of our house. It was used for firewood storage, but when we moved here in September we removed the firebox. This room has a door between the house and it, and is literally right beside the furnace, so running a small duct over with a controlled vent to keep the room at the right temperature would be very easy if it got too cold in there

Perfect! You have everything you need for Maples! You can start with Amur maples, but i wouldn't hesitate to jump right into Japanese Maples.

Keep your trees in partial shade (think pergola or trellis) on the south-side of your house all growing season (between last frost and first frost), and right before that first frost comes put them in your cold frame.

I'm in Montreal, and it's -16C (3F) here today. My trees are at a steady 2C (35F), and will be until spring comes along. Start at post #94 of my thread for cold-frame discussion:

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/my-maples-in-montreal.33315/page-5

is there a book or YouTube video channel or something that goes through all the when to do what?

If you spend enough time carefully reading through this forum, and take organized notes, you will learn everything you want to know now and will also familiarize yourself with everything you need to know later. When you come around to reading through things a second or third time, things make more sense every time.

That said, a good place is start are the free Bonsai Mirai videos.

@Myka nice to see another brace Canadian, welcome!

I think I've noticed that "serious bonsaists" buy plants that look to me to already be semi-trained as their starter plants.

members of your local bonsai club (don't hesitate to get in touch with them!), should be able to point you in the right direction. Failing that, Vineland Nurseries in Ontario has the greatest selection of Japanese Maples in Canada and will gladly ship trees to you.

To give you some reference Attached are a $10 tree (2-3 yrs old), and a $100 tree (10-12 yrs old). I bought trees at both these stages to get some hands-on learning and experience with the different practices relevant to these different stages of development.

Keeping these alive has been an interesting responsibility (it's good that you have dogs! You already know what this entails), and I am glad that I started with young trees like this rather than jumping straight into more expensive material. I have learned a lot over 3 years, but know that I am still not ready for a $500-1000 tree.

never stop reading, and start getting your hands dirty!

This is my favorite thread. I've gone through it line-by-line a dozen times. Notice something new every time.

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/ebihara-maples.18215/
 

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Leo in N E Illinois

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@Myka Welcome to the forum.
I'm in the Chicago - Milwaukee area, where we get a real winter. I use a well house / root cellar myself to winter my temperate trees, and sub-tropicals that need a cold dormancy. The first week or two of winter my root cellar / well house runs a little warm until the ground freezes deep enough to stabilize the temperatures. Then all winter it hovers between -2 C to +4 C (28 F to 40 F) rarely dropping below 0 C, but once every few years it does drop to the -2 C range. Then the last week or two before it is safe to put trees outside the root cellar gets a touch too warm, 5 C or a little more. Then you have the issue of trees waking up for a week or two, having to do the inside-outside dance, out into the sun in the morning, then back under cover to avoid a frost at night. Japanese maples wake up very quickly when spring rolls around, they tend to be my ''problem tree'' in that they need the most moving in and out in spring.

RockM is right that 43 F is too warm, but if you can figure a way to chill the firewood storage area just a few degrees more it would be perfect. You can then grow most of the temperate species.

I visited Anchorage, in February a few years back. Driving around the burbs of Anchorage at night it seems every other house had not just a few houseplants in the window, but rather full blown light gardens, with the glow of high tech lights. In 2008 was the first time I saw a group of people where fully 50% were growing under LED. I suspect with your mention of other forums that you have a lot more horticultural experience growing indoors than one might assume of the average beginner.

As for trees for the drafty windowsill near the door. Try Serissa, and try the florist's azalea. The florist's azalea is the one sold as a potted plant in the floral department, near the cut flowers and the potted houseplants. This is not the type of azalea sold in the landscape plant section of the box stores. The florist's azalea was bred for easy forcing into bloom, they often are in full bloom autumn through winter for sale in the box stores. The florist's azalea are bred from Taiwanese and other sub-tropical species of Rhododendron which are not quite frost hardy. They have a very short need for winter chill, and can have their chill requirement met with temperatures as high as +10 C (50 F). As bonsai, care will be generally similar to Satsuki azalea, except they are a bit off in when they bloom. For me they bloom in January and February. A nice touch for the bleak long nights of winter. They should be fine with the cold draughts that you mentioned.

Serissa is also from Taiwan, but lower elevation than the azalea used to breed the florist's azalea. It may do well for you, or it may crash and die. Get an inexpensive Serissa and see if it works. If it crashes on you, just chalk it off as a bad experience.

Another possibility would be Gardenia. - requirements very similar to the sub-tropical azalea. Wonderfully fragrant flowers, and if you get blooms in winter - bonus.

Ficus are resilient, will sit torpid, semi-dormant until temperatures are well above +18 C, then grow rapidly during the warmth of summer. Your extremely long summer day length will result in extraordinary growth in summer. The sluggish growth for the remainder of the autumn and winter.

Baobab - very poor choice for your latitude. They will not grow at all, not leaf out until temperatures are above +20 C, and prefer +25 or higher. They will drop leaves and go dormant the minute temperatures drop below +18C. Unless you have a room in your house you keep the heat cranked up, you are unlikely to be able to get much growth out of a baobab. The minute it gets cool, the baobab goes dormant, if you make the mistake of watering the tree after the leaves start to yellow, the roots will rot and the tree will turn to mush. Really a tricky tree to keep happy.

Hope my thoughts help. There are many more trees that could do well on your windowsill. Look for zone 7 to zone 8 sub-tropicals that need part shade. These will have the best chance of surviving in your window.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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@Myka
Fully hardy in zone 3, could be wintered outdoors, on the ground, under cover of snow or mulch

Amelanchier - especially your local native species of service berry. Early spring flowers, nice small fruit.

Arctostaphylos uva-ursi - bear berry, kinnikinnick, This is a ground cover woody shrub. If you can find a potting media that keeps it happy (they come from dry, acidic sandy soils) they are woody and could be used as an accent plant or a very small size bonsai.

Pinus banksiana - we call it jack pine - this is the most northern hardy pine in North America. They actually make decent bonsai. It has not been used a lot, there is not much literature. I have been experimenting with when to repot. I have been repotting AFTER the summer solstice, but at least 2 months before first frost. So far, so good. In general bonsai techniques would be like those used for mugo pine or Pinus sylvestris, scotch pine. It is native to the east of the Rockies northern plains of Canada, it should be fully hardy by you.

Elaeagnus - E. umbellata, autumn olive, and E. angustifolia, Russian olive, both species should be hardy outdoors. fragrant white flowers - both are invasive species, so if you kill a few learning bonsai, nobody will feel bad.

Ulmus pumila - Siberian elm - another invasive species- fully winter hardy. Absolutely needs full sun or it will drop branches. Great rough bark and very fast growing - good for bonsai, and again, if you kill a few, nobody will care.

Ulmus americana - if it is native to your area, great, use it for bonsai. If not any elm species is good for bonsai. Most won't be hardy, most will need your root cellar in winter.
***************
zone 6 to 4 hardies that would work with your root cellar, if you can get it just a touch cooler.

Malus - all apples and crab apples make excellent bonsai. most are zone 4 hardy. Let them get frosts outdoors, don't put them away until completely leafless and semi-frozen into their pots.

Sorbus - flowering or mountain ash - the only ''ash'' that really is fairly good for bonsai.

Shimpaku junipers - you can keep them in the dark root cellar all winter as long as the temperature gets below +4 C within a week or two of being put away for the winter.

Japanese black pines - these are zone 6 and warmer, they need heat to wake up in spring. JBP can be stored dark below 4 C. Your summer might be too short, these will likely behave as single flush pines for you. But they are very adaptable to bonsai culture. Your short growing season may be a serious problem.

Japanese white pine - closer to winter hardy in your area, if it is not grafted. If a Japanese white pine is grafted it will be no more hardy than its root stock.

Japanese Maples - as mentioned above. When first set out in spring after winter in the root cellar, starting them in shade is essential. They will burn up. A week or two in the shade, then move them to more sun.

*************************************************
Another one for your cool, drafty window sill - Citrus. Most citrus like a cool spell in winter, but frost free cool spell. Try Fortunella and the sour oranges, they tolerate cool better than the warmer growing sweet oranges. Kumquat is Fortunella, Calamondin orange is probably a kumquat hybrid. Tangerines are sour oranges and a little more cold tolerant than sweet oranges.
 

Myka

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43 is too warm for dormancy. It has to remain below or at freezing. A root cellar is a good place, but, again, this is NOT about keeping trees warm. It is about keeping them as cold as they can stand it for as long as they need. Too warm means trees may not go dormant (and require light) or come out of dormancy in Feb. or even Jan. (Again requiring them to have strong sunlight to live).

Try Brussels for ficus--don't know if they can ship to Canada, but it's worth a call to ask. They got reasonably priced stuff and only a portion of what they have is online. Calling and asking for photos of trees can turn up a decent specimen.
https://brusselsbonsai.com/golden-gate-ficus-bonsai-tree-ct3004ggf/

They also sell on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Brussels-Golden-Ficus-Indoor-Bonsai/dp/B0000DGF9T

Schefflera can make excellent bonsai. The plants you have access to aren't being cultivated for that, though. Although Fuku bonsai is on the high end pricewise, their website shows what can be done with the species:
http://www.fukubonsai.com/MAIN.1.TheFuku-BonsaiStore.html

Ah yes, sorry I should have been more specific - I meant it is currently 43F, and I'm expecting it to drop because it is "only" -12C outside right now. It will get to -35C or -40C some weeks. Usually our coldest weather is January in to February. It's been pretty mild so far. I will monitor the room and see how stable the temperature is, how far it actually drops, and I will monitor this in relation to the outside temperature. I'm sure I can fine tune it to work for me.

AFAIK you can't ship live plants across the border without a phytosanitary permit which would be cost prohibitive. I can only find one plant on Amazon.ca that is a live plant - lots of seeds, but no live plants. I will inquire anyway - maybe they have some special permitting or a retailer in Canada they supply to. Those Schefflera with the roots going down are interesting! Thank you!

@Myka nice to see another brace Canadian, welcome!



Perfect! You have everything you need for Maples! You can start with Amur maples, but i wouldn't hesitate to jump right into Japanese Maples.

Keep your trees in partial shade (think pergola or trellis) on the south-side of your house all growing season (between last frost and first frost), and right before that first frost comes put them in your cold frame.

I'm in Montreal, and it's -16C (3F) here today. My trees are at a steady 2C (35F), and will be until spring comes along. Start at post #94 of my thread for cold-frame discussion:

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/my-maples-in-montreal.33315/page-5



If you spend enough time carefully reading through this forum, and take organized notes, you will learn everything you want to know now and will also familiarize yourself with everything you need to know later. When you come around to reading through things a second or third time, things make more sense every time.

That said, a good place is start are the free Bonsai Mirai videos.

@Myka nice to see another brace Canadian, welcome!



members of your local bonsai club (don't hesitate to get in touch with them!), should be able to point you in the right direction. Failing that, Vineland Nurseries in Ontario has the greatest selection of Japanese Maples in Canada and will gladly ship trees to you.

To give you some reference Attached are a $10 tree (2-3 yrs old), and a $100 tree (10-12 yrs old). I bought trees at both these stages to get some hands-on learning and experience with the different practices relevant to these different stages of development.

Keeping these alive has been an interesting responsibility (it's good that you have dogs! You already know what this entails), and I am glad that I started with young trees like this rather than jumping straight into more expensive material. I have learned a lot over 3 years, but know that I am still not ready for a $500-1000 tree.

never stop reading, and start getting your hands dirty!

This is my favorite thread. I've gone through it line-by-line a dozen times. Notice something new every time.

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/ebihara-maples.18215/

Thank you for your detailed response! Great to see some Canadians!!!

Thanks for linking your thread - I've actually already been lurking all over it! :D :D :D

I have been looking for a bonsai club here. I found a group on Facebook, but only 28 members and only one post this year! Eep! There has to be more! I found a link in a thread to Vineland Nurseries in Ontario, and have been in contact with them already. VERY friendly and helpful! They have a couple Sequoia for me waiting for decent weather after the Christmas rush - will pick out a few more trees to fill the box. I can't resist trying Sequoia, and they are not expensive trees, so I'll give it a shot! Your $100 tree looks MUCH nicer than what I can find locally for $100! I'm jealous! Thanks for the thread link for maples - I'll dig right into that one too! :D

@Myka Welcome to the forum.
I'm in the Chicago - Milwaukee area, where we get a real winter. I use a well house / root cellar myself to winter my temperate trees, and sub-tropicals that need a cold dormancy. The first week or two of winter my root cellar / well house runs a little warm until the ground freezes deep enough to stabilize the temperatures. Then all winter it hovers between -2 C to +4 C (28 F to 40 F) rarely dropping below 0 C, but once every few years it does drop to the -2 C range. Then the last week or two before it is safe to put trees outside the root cellar gets a touch too warm, 5 C or a little more. Then you have the issue of trees waking up for a week or two, having to do the inside-outside dance, out into the sun in the morning, then back under cover to avoid a frost at night. Japanese maples wake up very quickly when spring rolls around, they tend to be my ''problem tree'' in that they need the most moving in and out in spring.

RockM is right that 43 F is too warm, but if you can figure a way to chill the firewood storage area just a few degrees more it would be perfect. You can then grow most of the temperate species.

I visited Anchorage, in February a few years back. Driving around the burbs of Anchorage at night it seems every other house had not just a few houseplants in the window, but rather full blown light gardens, with the glow of high tech lights. In 2008 was the first time I saw a group of people where fully 50% were growing under LED. I suspect with your mention of other forums that you have a lot more horticultural experience growing indoors than one might assume of the average beginner.

As for trees for the drafty windowsill near the door. Try Serissa, and try the florist's azalea. The florist's azalea is the one sold as a potted plant in the floral department, near the cut flowers and the potted houseplants. This is not the type of azalea sold in the landscape plant section of the box stores. The florist's azalea was bred for easy forcing into bloom, they often are in full bloom autumn through winter for sale in the box stores. The florist's azalea are bred from Taiwanese and other sub-tropical species of Rhododendron which are not quite frost hardy. They have a very short need for winter chill, and can have their chill requirement met with temperatures as high as +10 C (50 F). As bonsai, care will be generally similar to Satsuki azalea, except they are a bit off in when they bloom. For me they bloom in January and February. A nice touch for the bleak long nights of winter. They should be fine with the cold draughts that you mentioned.

Serissa is also from Taiwan, but lower elevation than the azalea used to breed the florist's azalea. It may do well for you, or it may crash and die. Get an inexpensive Serissa and see if it works. If it crashes on you, just chalk it off as a bad experience.

Another possibility would be Gardenia. - requirements very similar to the sub-tropical azalea. Wonderfully fragrant flowers, and if you get blooms in winter - bonus.

Ficus are resilient, will sit torpid, semi-dormant until temperatures are well above +18 C, then grow rapidly during the warmth of summer. Your extremely long summer day length will result in extraordinary growth in summer. The sluggish growth for the remainder of the autumn and winter.

Baobab - very poor choice for your latitude. They will not grow at all, not leaf out until temperatures are above +20 C, and prefer +25 or higher. They will drop leaves and go dormant the minute temperatures drop below +18C. Unless you have a room in your house you keep the heat cranked up, you are unlikely to be able to get much growth out of a baobab. The minute it gets cool, the baobab goes dormant, if you make the mistake of watering the tree after the leaves start to yellow, the roots will rot and the tree will turn to mush. Really a tricky tree to keep happy.

Hope my thoughts help. There are many more trees that could do well on your windowsill. Look for zone 7 to zone 8 sub-tropicals that need part shade. These will have the best chance of surviving in your window.

Thanks for taking the time to post such a detailed response for me! I really appreciate it!

I'm thinking I can rig up a thermostat of sorts that will pull cold air from outside when the cold room needs to be chilled, and pull air from a furnace duct (or maybe simply just pull from the heated basement) when the room needs to be heated. I do think when it is -30C outside that the room will get too cold, but honestly I don't know how well it is insulated, so maybe it won't get too cold. I'll just wait and watch for now. The potential is definitely there.

Hehe, the other forums I visit are dog forums and marine aquarium forums. I do probably have more experience than the typical newbie - I start all my bedding plants (annuals and perennials) and vegetables from seed indoors since our growing season is short. I do manage to produce quite an impressive crop. I also produced (legal) medical marijuana for many years (a very fun plant to work with/breed/clone/develop, though I have never had any interest in the use of the plant personally haha). Tropicals and over-wintering hardies is a different ball game for me though.

Serissa is on my "try to find" list long with Wisteria, Fukien Tea Tree, and I suppose Ficus. There are a few others I can't yet recall. I had these big plans of a Baobab simply because I've never seen one so they are almost like mystical creatures to me. If they need to be THAT warm though, then that would be a quick fail.

@Myka
Fully hardy in zone 3, could be wintered outdoors, on the ground, under cover of snow or mulch

Amelanchier - especially your local native species of service berry. Early spring flowers, nice small fruit.

Arctostaphylos uva-ursi - bear berry, kinnikinnick, This is a ground cover woody shrub. If you can find a potting media that keeps it happy (they come from dry, acidic sandy soils) they are woody and could be used as an accent plant or a very small size bonsai.

Pinus banksiana - we call it jack pine - this is the most northern hardy pine in North America. They actually make decent bonsai. It has not been used a lot, there is not much literature. I have been experimenting with when to repot. I have been repotting AFTER the summer solstice, but at least 2 months before first frost. So far, so good. In general bonsai techniques would be like those used for mugo pine or Pinus sylvestris, scotch pine. It is native to the east of the Rockies northern plains of Canada, it should be fully hardy by you.

Elaeagnus - E. umbellata, autumn olive, and E. angustifolia, Russian olive, both species should be hardy outdoors. fragrant white flowers - both are invasive species, so if you kill a few learning bonsai, nobody will feel bad.

Ulmus pumila - Siberian elm - another invasive species- fully winter hardy. Absolutely needs full sun or it will drop branches. Great rough bark and very fast growing - good for bonsai, and again, if you kill a few, nobody will care.

Ulmus americana - if it is native to your area, great, use it for bonsai. If not any elm species is good for bonsai. Most won't be hardy, most will need your root cellar in winter.
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zone 6 to 4 hardies that would work with your root cellar, if you can get it just a touch cooler.

Malus - all apples and crab apples make excellent bonsai. most are zone 4 hardy. Let them get frosts outdoors, don't put them away until completely leafless and semi-frozen into their pots.

Sorbus - flowering or mountain ash - the only ''ash'' that really is fairly good for bonsai.

Shimpaku junipers - you can keep them in the dark root cellar all winter as long as the temperature gets below +4 C within a week or two of being put away for the winter.

Japanese black pines - these are zone 6 and warmer, they need heat to wake up in spring. JBP can be stored dark below 4 C. Your summer might be too short, these will likely behave as single flush pines for you. But they are very adaptable to bonsai culture. Your short growing season may be a serious problem.

Japanese white pine - closer to winter hardy in your area, if it is not grafted. If a Japanese white pine is grafted it will be no more hardy than its root stock.

Japanese Maples - as mentioned above. When first set out in spring after winter in the root cellar, starting them in shade is essential. They will burn up. A week or two in the shade, then move them to more sun.

*************************************************
Another one for your cool, drafty window sill - Citrus. Most citrus like a cool spell in winter, but frost free cool spell. Try Fortunella and the sour oranges, they tolerate cool better than the warmer growing sweet oranges. Kumquat is Fortunella, Calamondin orange is probably a kumquat hybrid. Tangerines are sour oranges and a little more cold tolerant than sweet oranges.

WOW!!! Love the list! I know many of these trees! Jack Pine I saw in a couple threads, and that really piqued my interest since in the wild it is not usually an interesting tree - very straight, they all look alike. I imagine it would be an excellent candidate for a formal upright (if I know what I'm looking at hahaha).

I will keep my eyes peeled for grafting. That is not something I'm particularly adept in - is that something I can see when I look at the plant? I know on the hobby farm I grew up on there was a grafted maple that had two different colored leaves haha, and I think various varieties of apples and other fruit were grafted onto hardier stock trees.

I was looking at some Lemon and Orange Trees on Sunday, but the tags said that humidity was very important. It said it in a way that led me to believe utter failure would be accomplished if it wasn't in a greenhouse for humidity.

I will ask Vineland Nursery about these trees you have mentioned and see what I can get my hands on. The trees there are about 1/3 the price of trees here, so if I lose a few in my unprepared cold room I wouldn't be heartbroken. I just need to get my hands dirty! :D

Thanks again!!!
 
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Myka

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@Myka[...]and try the florist's azalea. The florist's azalea is the one sold as a potted plant in the floral department, near the cut flowers and the potted houseplants. This is not the type of azalea sold in the landscape plant section of the box stores. The florist's azalea was bred for easy forcing into bloom, they often are in full bloom autumn through winter for sale in the box stores. The florist's azalea are bred from Taiwanese and other sub-tropical species of Rhododendron which are not quite frost hardy. They have a very short need for winter chill, and can have their chill requirement met with temperatures as high as +10 C (50 F). As bonsai, care will be generally similar to Satsuki azalea, except they are a bit off in when they bloom. For me they bloom in January and February. A nice touch for the bleak long nights of winter. They should be fine with the cold draughts that you mentioned.

Hi Leo, I'm looking for these azalea. Tropicals won't be available here until late January or mid-February. If I'm looking at a list to order rather than in person, what am I looking for? I see "Azaleas, deciduous" and "Azaleas, evergreen". Is it the evergreen I am looking for, or do I need more info than this? 'Girard's Hot Shot' has caught my eye (after Googling haha).

Any idea which cultivar this white/pink Satsuki Azalea is in the foreground? *jaw drop*
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Shinjuku

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Any idea which cultivar this white/pink Satsuki Azalea is in the foreground? *jaw drop*

There are over 1000 cultivars of azalea, so it’s hard to say without a closer picture. It could be this one:
992B4290-7F23-468F-94D4-66235FB1D921.jpeg
 
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