Tricked by a Vendor - Bad Vendor - Bad eBay Seller - Bad Dealer Thread

[IndoorJenny]

If someone hasn't started a TRICKED BY A VENDOR thread, I'll be happy to, I'll even moderate it if no one else wants the job.

I've been working on a website that rates and reviews vendors and I'm in favor of registration to keep them honest.

 

[jkd2572]

Be careful not to cause yourself legal issues with slander.

 

[coppice]

I shop all the time. But rarely for trees bigger than saplings to plant to field.

I'm not so sure anybody can buy their way to bonsai bliss.

After a dozen and more years reading bonsai forums. The grower who either has a mentor, or the mind set of a treasure hunter, does better than a passive mall shopper.

Although I am deeply indebted to big box stores willingness to sell dead junipers. They have kept me in nice pots since the middle nineties, at bargain prices.

 

[IndoorJenny]

slander? defamation? nonsense!

Be careful not to cause yourself legal issues with slander.

Truth is the defense for defamation, and lawsuits are seldom profitable for anyone but lawyers and the courts, and I'm not talking about lies, read on...

What I favor is a registry with a voluntary annual membership – like joining the BBB for bonsai, if you will. If you're an honest vendor your membership shows that you are. Such registries exist in other hobbies and have been successful in policing dealers and keeping them ethical.

For example, call one and ask them if a Juniper Nana can be grown indoors. Not only do the reps recommend the Juniper as an indoor tree, they'll state more than once that any tree can be grown indoors, and sure, if you want to invest thousands of dollars in lighting and don't mind cutting a hole in your roof you can grow a giant sequoia indoors (for a while). Technically, it's the truth, but only technically. They don't point the novice or the gift buyer to one of the few recommended indoor trees at a lower price point.

This and other "screw the truth and full steam ahead lets make the sale" approaches can be found among various dealers, so can the bait and switch and other scams.

(The 25 year old tree that's 15-18 years old at best is a frequent one).

I buy a lot of trees. I have friends that buy a lot of trees. We've seen it, heard it, experienced it...

"You live in Michigan? It's December? Sure, just sit that Trident Maple in a window and water it once in a while. It'll be fine. I've got a customer in Buffalo NY who's been growing one on his kitchen counter since 1997".

I understand business. I've owned one for decades, and I'm all for making a sale. But more of the wrong trees are sold to novice's every day in the bonsai biz, and there's no one to protect the buyer – and online sources can be misleading and downright contradictory in offering advice.

That said, I know some honest nurseries, sellers, and dealers I'd recommend to anyone.

 

[IndoorJenny]

Bliss

I shop all the time. But rarely for trees bigger than saplings to plant to field.

I'm not so sure anybody can buy their way to bonsai bliss.

Armed with the right knowledge, you can indeed buy the right tree that brings you bliss.

After a dozen and more years reading bonsai forums. The grower who either has a mentor, or the mind set of a treasure hunter, does better than a passive mall shopper.

I agree, and mentors are important because once you've learned, you hopefully will become a mentor to someone else, and so on.

Although I am deeply indebted to big box stores willingness to sell dead junipers. They have kept me in nice pots since the middle nineties, at bargain prices.

ha! that's one way of looking at it!

 

[stacy allen muse]

????????????

 

[NewWorldBonsai]

It certainly is really annoying to see it happen. There is a bonsai nursery by me who sells 1yr old pro nanas for $30.00 as an indoor tree. But, if it dies come on back and buy another one for half off! Whats worse is the hedge trimming they do on ALL their plants, juniper, cedar whatever.

I really stress giving only honest information and am first to tell people I don't know or can't comment. Then it's time to hit the books...

The best thing is to vote with your dollar! That and education are the biggest steps in helping real bonsai and passionate bonsai artists to succeed.

I've also thought of making an organization of people who want to be honest growers and sellers. I'm behind you

 

[jkd2572]

I think that people who are serious about this hobby will find the good sellers. The rest will buy the indoor juniper. Thats part of the journey. If someone is interested enough to do this hobby then they will figure it out. Lets be honest this is not easy at times and if you are unwilling to do the research and work then you should find yourself enjoying your free time with something else. This is not a sport for the Sunday gardener.

 

[IndoorJenny]

more..plus eBay tree sellers too

It certainly is really annoying to see it happen. There is a bonsai nursery by me who sells 1yr old pro nanas for $30.00 as an indoor tree. But, if it dies come on back and buy another one for half off! Whats worse is the hedge trimming they do on ALL their plants, juniper, cedar whatever.

I really stress giving only honest information and am first to tell people I don't know or can't comment. Then it's time to hit the books...

The best thing is to vote with your dollar! That and education are the biggest steps in helping real bonsai and passionate bonsai artists to succeed.

I've also thought of making an organization of people who want to be honest growers and sellers. I'm behind you

Thanks so much for the support, I intend to start a website as soon as I can in which such a registry is offered and I can also offer my own personal experiences with various vendors good and bad. Over the months I've kept detailed records about my personal experiences with each including eBay sellers.

My advice for anyone who's shopping for a tree on eBay is to ask hard questions of the seller before making a purchase and make sure the seller, whether it's on eBay or off, stands behind the tree he or she is selling. That's the hallmark of a good nursery or vendor. If the seller doesn't offer heat packs and you live in a cold zone, or offers them at an additional cost, then that's a seller to avoid.

It's quite alright for an eBay seller who offers heat packs to state that winter shipping is at the buyers risk, but be sure to ask how they heat pack the tree and don't assume that just because they offer heat packs they know how to use them. I've had trees shipped with heat packs arrive without them, trees heat packed on the bottom of a cold glazed pot but not around it's sides or inside the shipping box walls, etc.

When the growing season arrives, the issue becomes sellers who ship trees with pests. I've gotten trees with leaf miners and other pests.

Lastly, if you're considering a tree from an eBay seller and aren't sure, send me a PM. If I've dealt with them good or bad, I'll let you know.

As always, should anyone live in a cold zone and need indoor growing tips, or just want to grow indoors year round instead of outdoors, I'm happy to share my experience and advice.

 

[IndoorJenny]

researching the good sellers

I think that people who are serious about this hobby will find the good sellers. The rest will buy the indoor juniper. Thats part of the journey. If someone is interested enough to do this hobby then they will figure it out. Lets be honest this is not easy at times and if you are unwilling to do the research and work then you should find yourself enjoying your free time with something else. This is not a sport for the Sunday gardener.

A valid point, yes, but why should the novice in particular, or anyone for that matter, have to research good sellers, and where are the tools to do so?

Such a registry as I suggest would be as beneficial to good sellers as it would be to buyers.

 

[bonsai barry]

I have found people on this forum very helpful. Usually somebody has had experience with the vendor in question. There are several on EBay that have exceptional reputations. Some of them are members of this forum.

 

[edprocoat]

They actually have a section here called Vendor Experiences which covers both good and bad vendors, look under forums in the next to bottom section.

ed

 

[IndoorJenny]

eBay redux

I have found people on this forum very helpful. Usually somebody has had experience with the vendor in question. There are several on EBay that have exceptional reputations. Some of them are members of this forum.

and there are half a dozen eBay sellers or more in my notes and another three or four who come to mind as dishonest too, so it's good to hear that some of the reputable ones are members of this forum, and should I ever get my site finished, I look forward to profiling them as highly recommended!

 

[coppice]

Isn't this what Dave's site was supposed to do?

It went to a pay site and has effectively disapeared.

 

[Bill S]

Was it Lou's bonsai, home of the indoor redwoods, he even defends listing them as indoor when questioned.

Personally I think your idea wouldn't make it as a pay site until you build quite a following, Annies list I think would be an example of what you want to do.

 

[IndoorJenny]

free site

Was it Lou's bonsai, home of the indoor redwoods, he even defends listing them as indoor when questioned.

Personally I think your idea wouldn't make it as a pay site until you build quite a following, Annies list I think would be an example of what you want to do.

Mine will be a free site but membership for dealers/vendors may mean a small membership fee

 

[rockm]

You familiar with this case?:

http://realtybiznews.com/virginia-builder-negative-yelp/98718926/

This is a developing legal area that is still very open to interpretation. Not saying your idea won't work, but there is potential for a steep downside.

http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/mo...our_money/realtors-fight-bogus-online-reviews

And working off and on in the contractor business, I have also found that some people are never satisfied, no matter how hard work. The customer is always right, but that doesn't mean they can't be complete AS#$(*&^S.

I pay very little attention to online reviews nowadays, after experiencing the exact opposite of what was said about restaurants, local businesses and services. I doubt the problem vendors are going to sign up anyway. Why go looking for a problem?

 

[IndoorJenny]

You familiar with this case?:

http://realtybiznews.com/virginia-builder-negative-yelp/98718926/

This is a developing legal area that is still very open to interpretation. Not saying your idea won't work, but there is potential for a steep downside.

http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/mo...our_money/realtors-fight-bogus-online-reviews

And working off and on in the contractor business, I have also found that some people are never satisfied, no matter how hard work. The customer is always right, but that doesn't mean they can't be complete AS#$(*&^S.

I pay very little attention to online reviews nowadays, after experiencing the exact opposite of what was said about restaurants, local businesses and services. I doubt the problem vendors are going to sign up anyway. Why go looking for a problem?

yes, but once again, if you'll go back and read my other posts, any information regarding bad vendors I've had personal experience with will be presented with factual documentation.

Perhaps I need to explain the rest of the idea in better detail. Let's say I call it the UBCC (United Bonsai Collectors Club) and each member who is a dealer pays for example, a $25 annual fee. That fee gets them free advertising and instant credibility. Non-Dealer members can elect officers from the member ranks. These officers in turn investigate and adjudicate any complaints made against a member dealer. The dealer is given an opportunity to make the matter right. Should the dealer fail to do so, he or she could be sanctioned and dropped from membership.

Okay, that's a rough outline of the idea.

It's interesting how many naysayers there appears to be for an idea that would protect consumers

 

[jkd2572]

Or harm sellers.

 

[IndoorJenny]

sellers

Or harm sellers.

I don't see any way the truth adjudicated by members can harm sellers. I bought a tree from a vendor that arrived with leaf miners and soil worms. Am I not entitled to a refund for a tree he described as pest free?