Trident advice

[scarriedoc]

I bought this TM this year. It's about 5 years old. It was trunk chopped at back (yellow line) and the new leader and branch off leader (pink areas) are the strongest branches, but what should I do to thicken the lower branches (blue areas)? I planned to repot in spring since it's fairly root bound. Should I prune some upper branches back hard now to encourage those lower branches, knowing that I am going to repot in spring? What should I do to help thicken those lower two?

 

[John P.]

If it were mine I wouldn’t do anything now, but would rather wait until before the buds break in Spring. Then I’d repot and leave those lower branches, perhaps trimmed, and the apex. That’s it. It seems to me the apex needs some thickening to be proportionate with the lower trunk.

Spring would be a good time to get those roots in order, too. They need some help. It will be helpful when you repot to evaluate the situation.

I think the conventional wisdom would say to focus on the trunk and roots now.

 

[Warpig]

If it were mine I wouldn’t do anything now, but would rather wait until before the buds break in Spring. Then I’d repot and leave those lower branches, perhaps trimmed, and the apex. That’s it. It seems to me the apex needs some thickening to be proportionate with the lower trunk.

Spring would be a good time to get those roots in order, too. They need some help. It will be helpful when you repot to evaluate the situation.

I think the conventional wisdom would say to focus on the trunk and roots now.

I agree and would take it one step further and give it another whole year to grow out.

 

[Forsoothe!]

Do I see a substantial difference between the trunk below the first two branches and the rest of the tree, like a graft?

 

[Shibui]

Branches will thicken with either time or growth. Apical dominance means that if you allow upper branches to grow lower ones will not grow very much so to get your lower branches to grow and thicken keep pruning those strong upper ones.
It is probably a bit late in your growing season for any pruning to make much difference so probably best to wait until spring. You could do it now and it probably won't hurt the tree but just won't achieve much. Tridents are strong enough to cope with pruning the branches and hard root pruning all at the same time.
Growth appears to be sparse with relatively few leaves. Has this had enough sun and/or fertiliser this summer? Being in the bonsai pot will restrict the amount of growth you will get so you need to decide whether you want good growth and development or an undeveloped tree in a bonsai pot.

 

[scarriedoc]

Do I see a substantial difference between the trunk below the first two branches and the rest of the tree, like a graft?

Yes, the new leader has darker bark than the original trunk, but the bonsai center owner confirmed it wasn't a graft. John, at Green Thumb in Greenville, SC.

 

[Forsoothe!]

Baloney. It will only increase in difference over time. The lesson will be learned, the hard way. Caveat Emptor.

 

[River's Edge]

I bought this TM this year. It's about 5 years old. It was trunk chopped at back (yellow line) and the new leader and branch off leader (pink areas) are the strongest branches, but what should I do to thicken the lower branches (blue areas)? I planned to repot in spring since it's fairly root bound. Should I prune some upper branches back hard now to encourage those lower branches, knowing that I am going to repot in spring? What should I do to help thicken those lower two?View attachment 266834View attachment 266835

What is your plan for this tree? Are you going to continue to develop the single trunk? Are you planning on multi trunk from this point?

Thickening a branch involves allowing it to grow out.
You prune a branch when it has reached the desired thickness.

You can prune a trident when it is repotted in the spring.

Keep it in a larger container while you are still in the development stage.

 

[scarriedoc]

Baloney. It will only increase in difference over time. The lesson will be learned, the hard way. Caveat Emptor.

Here are two better pictures. Do you really think it is a graft? How will this affect development of this tree?

 

[River's Edge]

Here are two better pictures. Do you really think it is a graft? How will this affect development of this tree?
View attachment 266933

Looks like a graft! Either that or its a graft!
Development will be the same as if it did not exist. The visual outcome will be different in that the scar will remain and the trunk color will vary.
Grafted trees are generally less desireable for Bonsai unless the plan is to layer off on their own roots and create suitable nebari.

 

[sorce]

Could be the lower trunk was lime sulphered before that branch grew and has residual whiterness.

Even a liar wouldn't graft trident onto a shitty base.

Sorce

 

[coh]

Is this supposed to be some special cultivar of trident maple? Because if not, why would it be grafted? Trident maple seedlings are a dime-a-dozen, there would normally be no reason to graft unless it was a special cultivar.

Looks like it could easily just be a regular non-grafted tree that was chopped, with a vigorous new leader.

Could be the lower trunk was lime sulphered before that branch grew and has residual whiterness.

Even a liar wouldn't graft trident onto a shitty base.

Sorce

That too...really doubt this is a graft. Post a photo showing other views of that area (from the other sides) if you want (OP, not sorce).

 

[BobbyLane]

Is this supposed to be some special cultivar of trident maple? Because if not, why would it be grafted? Trident maple seedlings are a dime-a-dozen, there would normally be no reason to graft unless it was a special cultivar.

Looks like it could easily just be a regular non-grafted tree that was chopped, with a vigorous new leader.



That too...really doubt this is a graft. Post a photo showing other views of that area (from the other sides) if you want (OP, not sorce).

i thought the same. ive never heard of a trident being grafted before, left me baffled.

 

[scarriedoc]

When I look at similar tridents the nursery has for sale, there are others that have a similar color difference between trunk and leader. Mine is the center one, last row. Does this help to answer the grafting question?

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[coh]

The photos on the website are not conclusive but certainly suggest none are grafted. As I said, tridents grow easily from seed and even from cuttings, so it doesn't make sense that any of these would be grafted. These are all almost certainly seed-grown. A color shift at a trunk chop would not be unusual as there is a sudden transition from older "bark" to newer. It should even out over time.

 

[John P.]

I’ve purchased grafted tridents of unusual cultivars from online maple nurseries, so it does happen.

 

[River's Edge]

Could be the lower trunk was lime sulphered before that branch grew and has residual whiterness.

Even a liar wouldn't graft trident onto a shitty base.

Sorce

The two ugly surface roots could conceal a better base lower down! The coloration is consistent with trident maturing and the base being five years approximately. The visual effect looks like a graft! The branch removed on the left enhances the graft look! Time will easily tell if the new leader color matches the base and the bark configuration is the same. If that happens then, no graft!
One reason for grafting Trident on other maple stock would be to increase cold hardiness for other climatic zones. If being done for the nursery trade then the shape of the rootstock would not be a concern with the plan being to put into landscape.
I agree for Bonsai it makes no sense to graft a trident unless propogating a specific Trident cultivar. Then it still makes no sense on that particular base for Bonsai purposes unless the plan is to airlayer at a later point after the growth has matured to the desired point!

 

[Forsoothe!]

I’ve purchased grafted tridents of unusual cultivars from online maple nurseries, so it does happen.

I have a Acer buergerianum 'Michael Steinhardt' with golden leaves which is grafted.

 

[Forsoothe!]

It doesn't matter if the OP is grafted, or it just has too prominent of a difference because it was chopped flat, or struck by lightning, or someone tripped over it in the nursery, or it was a bad seed. "Appearance" is everything in bonsai, and we do everything to achieve a particular "look". My preferred look may be different than yours, but whatever else is true one of the first lessons we learn in bonsai is you have to be a good shopper. Some stock does not have the bones to make a bonsai. The most important part of tree is the base of the trunk, the first couple inches. When you start the process in the hole, may have to spend 10 or 15 years digging back out to ground level. Who willingly does that? Or, learn to look very closely and only buy stock that is amenable to our process and skill level and luck, etc. That will exclude 90 or 99% of landscaping stock.

So this tree was purchased online from a bonsai site. Caveat Emptor still applies.

 

[scarriedoc]

It doesn't matter if the OP is grafted, or it just has too prominent of a difference because it was chopped flat, or struck by lightning, or someone tripped over it in the nursery, or it was a bad seed. "Appearance" is everything in bonsai, and we do everything to achieve a particular "look". My preferred look may be different than yours, but whatever else is true one of the first lessons we learn in bonsai is you have to be a good shopper. Some stock does not have the bones to make a bonsai. The most important part of tree is the base of the trunk, the first couple inches. When you start the process in the hole, may have to spend 10 or 15 years digging back out to ground level. Who willingly does that? Or, learn to look very closely and only buy stock that is amenable to our process and skill level and luck, etc. That will exclude 90 or 99% of landscaping stock.

So this tree was purchased online from a bonsai site. Caveat Emptor still applies.

Look, whether it looks like a graft or not, this noob is still going to learn how to make this look like an interesting tree, along with all the nursery stock that I started this year, to which I'm sure you'd turn your nose up at as well. I don't live near a bonsai nursery, so i bought one online from a semi-close nursery of which I had read was reputable to people in my state.

No regrets. Looking forward to all the lessons I'll learn with these trees I have.